Daily Hand Quiz

V could be viewing our turn check as weak and bluffing the river to try to pick up the pot. Or v could have benefitted from another “massively loose call” and hit the queen. Only one way to find out. I’m not sure I have enough info to say it’s a bluff at least 1/3 of the time, but I’m calling. Almost have myself talked into folding.

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I voted call, but would anyone entertain the idea of a raise here? In a tourny this is a standard call I think, but in a cash game I think there is an argument for shoving.

We know that villain is susceptible to making loose calls. A shove here would look like a very odd line on our part. If we think we are good often enough to call, isn’t there value in a shove if we think he’ll look us up with Ax, single pairs that we beat? He’ll be getting 3 to 1 on his money… hell I could even imagine him looking us up with Kx diamonds.

Thoughts?

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samo Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 8:59 am

Interesting thought, but I believe we will only be called by better hands. Our image has us in-line, and hands like JJ and TT would play the flop & turn as the V did. Although those pairs are a small part of their range, I’d just call.

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Morat Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 10:01 am

You’re overthinking. It’s one thing to make a loose call pre and another is to call a river shove over a pot sized bet for about 75BBs. Noone can be loose enough to call that shove with a hand that we beat.

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CJ Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 1:14 pm

I’d agree with the others, if he’s bluffing and hasn’t made a decent hand he won’t call and if he does he probably has us beat. Given our image a shove would only be called by something stronger than 99.

Calling is a safe play here.

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Anonymous Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 6:54 pm

shoving is terrible.

you get called only when your beat. he’s not snap calling us with 7x here lol.

its between calling/folding.

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We only have to be good 1 in 3 times for it to be +/= EV and given respective images, I think that’s a reasonable expectation so I wouldn’t usually consider folding in this spot.

On the other hand, there are several hands in V’s range that we’re behind (A4, Qx, TT/JJ, sets) and I don’t think a raise is folding any of them out – I’m not sure what we’d be representing to get V to fold a better hand.

So, the only value we get from raising comes from getting worse hands to call – maybe there are a few, but if’s he’s putting $114 in with only $170 behind I think he’s telling us he’s calling any raise.

I’d call and be happy when he turns over a busted diamond (or annoyed when he turns over 46).

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Pirate21 Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 8:51 am

* busted diamond DRAW that is…

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I think a fair amount of the time he shows up with some kind of queen here. I think he might have QJ, Q10, AQ, QK, maybe both diamonds. The thing that throws me off a little bit is when he checked the queen on the turn. I’d figure if he had a Queen he would want to bet it for value and charge us for the flush draw. As the previous poster’s said, I don’t think a push all in is scaring him away, unless he’s got nothing but air. He kinda committed himself to the pot. So I probably call and then pound my fist into my desk when he flips over some kind of queen. Who knows, he might even show up here with AK…so many people just can’t fold that hand no matter what.

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Pirate21 Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 9:20 am

“I’d figure if he had a Queen he would want to bet it for value and charge us for the flush draw”

Totally agree with this. He played it like the Q was a scare card (BTW – I’d bet the turn rather than checking behind).
Unless he’s QQ or maybe hit some kind of odd 2-pr (Q7??), the check isn’t consistent with him holding a Q.

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I’m calling here. I would be pretty sure we are ahead, but clearly there are hands that have us beat.

Most likely we are winning a nice pot here, personally I see no reason to get too greedy. I just don’t think busted flush draws to call a shove here. Loose flop calls are one thing, but loose river calls are a little different.

I kinda feel like when it comes to loose weak players its better to bleed them slower than to swing the battleaxe. Swinging for the fence can get you crunched in one big instant because they can literally be playing anything.

Over the long haul you will just outplay them and win their money. I just prefer to lengthen the game that way.

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I voted raise, enough to put the V all in. I’m sure you would all agree we’re ahead. I’m raising to punish the loose player. Don’t reward him by being passive and flat calling to JUST see if your good. Make him think twice about betting into you while you take the pot.

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Major Dude Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 11:17 pm

Ah, that’s a train of thought that’s good for our ego but quite bad for our win rate.

We don’t know for sure what Villain has. There’s a good chance we’re ahead. But even morons catch cards every now and then. He could have Qx. He could have rivered a set. There are other hands that could be quite distressing for us, too.

If we push and it turns out we’re behind, we lost a whole lot of chips unnecessarily. If we’re ahead, he most likely folds and we don’t make anything more.

More broadly, anytime we start slamming chips around to “punish” someone else for bad play, there’s a real risk that we’re starting to become the stupid player. Take a close look at your final sentence. It sounds like your aim is to “teach” him not to be so foolishly aggressive. Why would we want to do that? His current playing styles is wonderfully dreadful. No reason to teach him anything at all.

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Pirate21 Reply:
March 10th, 2011 at 11:56 pm

“Why would we want to do that? His current playing styles is wonderfully dreadful. No reason to teach him anything at all.”

Very well said.

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Hero played hand terrible. If you raise flop here the turn is a mustbet.

To those raising – you only get called when your beat. Raising for VALUE is terrible. if we raise here its because we think our hand is no good and want to bluff. He’s not calling our raise with 7x lol.

Im calling here since
“Player A, who just doubled up by making a massively loose flop call two hands ago”
because of this, i can see him trying to Valuebet 7x. he can also have missed diamonds.

we only have to be good 1/3 here, CALL

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