Daily Hand Quiz

prolly bad but I am jamming turn all day, really don’t like calling and committing so much of our stack, and folding seems bad

voting call as shoving turn isn’t available, but if we call turn I don’t think we can fold the river

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What a mess. I keep going broke with an overpair on the turn after getting min raised too. Maybe we should get off JJ here then …

…But then again we have to call for our draw anyway and then most of our stack is in the middle. Yuck!

Can I please go back to the turn and just call for pot control? Sure I know he could well be drawing but we have no idea if JJ is good on a 5,8,9,10 board facing a weird turn lead. our raise also folds out hands we beat and we have a draw to try and hit too if we call.

Also raise more prelop. I don’t know about a buy-in anywhere near as high as $162, but where I play I would get called very wide from the blinds rasing 3x at 15/30 and wouldn’t define my hand properly.

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It feels like we are in bad shape up against 55 for bottom set. But I can’t get away from this hand. Would shove here and pray for my 10 outer to hit, or for v to fold which seems unlikely. If forced to call instead would have to consider folding river if I didn’t hit.

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First of all. If we’ve been at the same table as this guy long enough for him to get a clear read on us and we have nothing on him, that’s not good.

Let’s try and put him on a range here. Of course 55 makes sense given the action, however I would expect TT, 99 or an overpair to play back at a button raise even against a TAG, and don’t think 88 would check-call that flop (more likely lead or check-raise for information). It’s possible that he might be slow-playing T9 but again I think the check-call on the flop would be odd for that hand. Discounting the unlikely 67s, the only other hand that beats us is JQ, which fits the action but is less likely as we have two of the jacks.

So, is there anything in villain’s range that we can beat? We can discount total air, because he would need to be a maniac to do that in this spot and surely we would have picked up on that in the time it’s taken for us to develop a TAG image.

I think any kind of pair would have either led out or check-raised the flop for information. I don’t think he’s getting out of line with missed overcards, so that leaves a pretty thin base of flush draws – broadway diamonds, the top end of which would probably have 3bet pre flop.

I am not a massive fan of putting so many chips in during the early stages with a pair of jacks, but I can’t ignore the fact here that we may be ahead and even if we are crushed, we’ve probably got 10 outs on the river. We are getting better than 5 to 1 for a call.

I say make the call and evaluate the river in position. If the river bricks and he shoves, fold and move on with 56xBBs still to play with. If we make it then either call or shove ourselves. If villain checks a bricked river, check behind.

It’s a pretty grim spot but not one in which I’m willing to give up just yet.

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I’m calling the stupid min raise and evaluating the river. Don’t like this spot but I’m on the fence about him beating us at the moment. I know I can still get away from the river with some chips if I miss and he bets. What a messy situation though. Totally makes me wish I just called the turn bet instead of raising. The real scary thing would be if we call and a Queen or 7 of diamonds hits the river! I’d probably go broke with the second best hand…

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I don’t like the raise on the turn. OOP player with the deepest stack at the table has called our bets before and after the flop, now he leads the turn and we raise with an over pair and a draw? We’re either fishing for info here (in which case we got our answer and should fold) or we’re raising to protect an overpair that’s starting to look like it’s way behind (that’s just dumb). The min raise is now pricing us into calling and all but committing us to the pot unless a sufficiently scary card shows up on the river.
This goes back to the General’s comments yesterday about letting a pot get out of hand when the blinds are so low.
If we just call the turn, we have a lot more room to maneuver on the river – seems like a much better idea than falling in love with our pocket Jacks.
Even though we seem to be priced into calling right here, I think there’s a good chance we’re drawing to several false outs. V’s betting line on the turn is sending up strong warning signals – small lead and a min 3-bet tells me he’s trying to get our chips in the middle. Since this appears to be the only read we have, I’d be very nervous about calling.
Ugly spot… I think I have to call and eval the river, but I’m looking to get to showdown as cheap as possible and definitely folding to any sizeable river bet unless I hit the river hard.

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We raised the turn why? Call the turn and call the river.

As played I fold.

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SB teaser bet of 230 on the turn should set off alarm bells, coming over the top of your raise with a min raise is a poke in the eye to try and piss you off into shoving your stack in when your dead on arrival. It’s only 15/30, it’s ok to fold contested hands, never risk all your chips early unless you got the nuts. SB could have called with a very wide range, to me it screams TRIPS, STRAIGHT. As played, with so many chips already in, I call for the Qcsh, if I don’t hit it I fold to any bet & cuss the poker site & pour some Jack Daniel’s, I feel better already.

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Pirate21 Reply:
October 29th, 2010 at 11:14 am

” if I don’t hit it I fold to any bet & cuss the poker site & pour some Jack Daniel’s”

Nice

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Hero sure made it a bumpy ride with that questionable turn raise. If call and miss, still a stack to play this early.

As far as their range, I’m weighing TT and 99 more heavily than bottom set or 2-pr. AQ and KQ, especially suited. still in the mix. Of course QJ would be nasty, albeit less likely. Call at 5-1, and hope to win a nice pot.

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Ahh WOP beat me to it. If we have been sitting here long enough to establish a tight image, and we have no read on the guy SITTING IMMEDIATELY TO OUR LEFT, then what the hell are we doing? The 2 guys to our left are the most important in the game.

With that said, what are we doing then playing like this against a player we have zero read on? Its unreal to me how much trouble can be avoided and how much money can be saved just by either bothering to get a read, and/or exercising some restraint and pot control when we decide to play without one anyway.

As for the hand, lets look at it through the V’s eyes: It folded to the button, and he went 3x. More often than not this looks like just a steal and very rarely a premium hand, so our call range here can be a lot wider. We flat call him out of the SB. We don’t 3 bet, so that suggests we don’t care much if the BB comes along at a great price. We go heads up. We catch a flop which matches a wide call range very nicely. We check, the V bets basically the pot. Since it was most likely a steal, this looks like a bloated C bet. Our wide range hits the board, so we call. Now the 8 comes, which matches our range even more, and now a few different hands just got there. Since the guy is most likely running c-bet air, it isn’t likely he will fire again if we check, so we bet just under half. Instead we get re-raised. So now we have to ask the hard question, is he serious? Well, min-reraising is a good way of finding out.

Now back from the Hero eyes… it doesn’t seem like this is a value 3 bet. If he had the joint, he would go higher, or he would call hoping we improved even more on the river. A min-reraise is too scary to do when you have the goods.

I don’t think he has 99 or TT cuz he didn’t 3 bet. I think he’s sitting on 2 pair. Which means we are sitting on a mountain of outs to the river. Folding at this price is out of the question. I say at least call here. We have to keep playing control. If we don’t improve we can’t call a river bet. But be weary if the board pairs, even though it will probably give us the winning hand. He hasn’t flexed real strength yet, it seems he’s seeing if we’re serious, since we haven’t done any real flexing ourselves yet. If our non-straight outs hit, don’t re-raise or get greedy because we aren’t sure if he has T8, T9, or 89. If we river a J, don’t get greedy because a rogue 7 just got there. If we hit the Q or 7, take it straight to value town.

Call. If river bet is small enough, I’d almost call just to see what he had this whole time. This is mostly just another important lesson in pot control, and bothering to give a shit studying the 2 to your left and the 1 to your right. If we called the turn, and called a river bet, it would have been less money than we’ve already put in, and we haven’t even seen a river yet. We have a ton of outs to give us the winning hand, even though we can’t bet them. Call.

Remember that episode of Wonder Years where Kevin got married to his QQ, and Paul took him to the cleaners with a well disguised but identifiable 2 pair? Even Wayne knew Paul had top 2 pair. Don’t be Kevin.

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I agree with the general consensus that our turn raise was unnecessary. Though on such a draw-heavy board, the villain’s min-raise seems very donkish to me as well.

Villain’s range has been amply discussed, and my gut feeling was actually the same as the general’s: two pair, most likely 10-9. (This would give us 6 more outs.)
But the sets are all possible. It’s not actually such a bad play to flat, not 3-bet TT or 99 against a suspected steal and floating some bluffs! (though it’s better from the BB when the SB has folded)

At any rate it seems that villain has flopped something that isn’t very likely to improve.
This is an easy call on pot odds alone.
If the river misses us we cannot justify a call, unless the villain tries another “trap” with a minuscule bet.

We may even get a check from villain if a diamond comes on the river. Can we rep a flush then?

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from what I’ve experienced, he’s probably got 7′s. He doesn’t want to fold, and thinks you’re bluffing with an empty flush draw. So many donks…who knows!
If the guy’s not a donk, then I may consider folding, but I doubt it. Shoving here, 4 bet.

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