Daily Hand Quiz

BB likely thinks he’s re-stealing here, but still may have 2 overs. I think a reasonable argument can be made for either r/r or call/lead.
I voted call/lead… Roughly, the same play but the stop-n-go will get a fold a little more often because V’s odds are reduced significantly the 2/3 of the time he misses the flop.
I’d only consider call/check if the flop has 3 overs or if I flop a set.

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Nelson Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 9:20 am

Word. I like the stop n go – that makes sense if we’re willing to call preflop. We’d still have almost 100,000 to jam with if the flop is not too scary for us. It would be sweet if the flop was all unders and we could get a call from villain with 2 big unpaired overs that missed.

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Well a call pretty much commits us, and a shove pretty much commits villain given the stack sizes. He’s got a big stack so I really don’t think he’s folding to a shove here from us. We’re probably either dominated or flipping at best. The reraise preflop by villain says strength to me. I’d think if he had a smaller pocket pair than ours he’d probably just ship it, same goes for two unpaired overs. I think I might let this one go and still have a bit of a playable stack left. Its not much but plenty to chip up with and possibly wait out for a few pay jumps.

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general johnson jameson Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 2:12 pm

Sorry… I just have to ask, and in all sincerity: If you aren’t willing to shove all in with 99 at a 6 max table, in response to a transparent garden variety Huge stack vs. short stack bully move, then what the hell more do you want to make this move? 3 nines?

Also, if we fold here, we have exactly 10M. Which is generous even, because we are at a short handed table so we aren’t getting full table hand/blind ratio. The next shortest has double that. We don’t have the chips to jump up pay spots. Do you think you’re really going to get a better hand in the next few rotations that is better than 99? Even if you do, your stack will be so small you can’t fade multiple callers. The other stacks will not play with each other for more than min-sized pots until we are gone, you can count on that.

I’m willing to fake approval for the call-all-in stop n go move. But if we do anything that does not have all of our chips in either right now, or immediately in first action after the flop comes out, we are making a huge error. Yes we’d like these to be aces instead of nines, but the reality is that they are nines, and this is where we need to get paid.

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You were small stack to begin with, so i think the just-over-3x raise from the SB is questionable to begin with. I would much rather have shoved than just standard raise and picked up an extra ~10% onto our stack, not to mention that the raise is a fair portion of our stack anyways. I feel like, if we werent going to snapcall/shove a reraise, we shouldn’t have raised to begin with.

If we let this go, we are essentially going to be targeted by the other players, as their ranges are going to tighten even more due to the pay jumps. I think V may be willing to do this with almost ATC, as if you reshove, he can easily fold out rags, call with broadway cards or even 66-88 if you think he is capiable of 3betting with those, and if V loses, he is still right on PlayerB’s tail for chips.

I like the ship now option myself, and maybe a little stop-n-go if you want to try to get fancy.

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I don’t particularly hate folding here, as we are likely to get a better hand for shipping, although the downside is that we probably won’t get to see a flop again until we do.

As presented I don’t see how any flop will help us.
V’s modest raise would not make sense if he merely wanted to punish an attempted steal.
He seems confident that we have something of a hand and proposes his might be better. The only way he doesn’t have a medium-to-high pair is AK or mayyybe AQ

If we are to represent a premium hand it’s best we do it now before a flop ruins it. We may still have the best hand but it is bound to get weaker

Call and lead flop I think is too transparent. A top player is not going to believe “Wahey! Our already good hand managed to hit the flop and become even better!”, certainly not at this stage.

Call and check flop makes no sense whatsoever, except if you were actually hoping to make a set, which would mean you wouldn’t be at this table at all.

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Pirate21 Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 4:25 pm

The point of the stop-n-go (call-lead) in this situation isn’t to convince V that we’ve hit the flop. It’s to take advantage of his reduced odds the 67% of the time that they don’t hit.
When we shove, he’s getting around 3:1 to call. With 5 cards to come and knowing that he doesn’t have to put another chip in the middle, V should call this pretty often.
After the flop though, with only 2 cards to come, V needs to have caught a piece of the flop for the math to work – thus he should fold this roughly 2/3 of the time. I’m discounting possible draws, etc so make it 60%… but the point is still the same – in the long run we have a better chance of getting a fold after the flop than before it (unless V is going to consistently ignore the math – in which case we should win the majority of the time anyway).

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T Reply:
August 2nd, 2010 at 6:43 pm

Except… v deliberately put himself in that position. A top player should be aware that the size of his reraise means that hero is going to have to spend the rest of his chips if he wants to continue with the hand.
Why then would he fold to what he expects us to do after the flop?

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If we call, we are committed no matter what the flop brings. We cannot call half our stack and fold to any flop. Hence, stop and go is not preferrable. If it brings overs, which it will bring at least one, then we curse and kick the dog. So the question becomes, do we want BB to call or fold and how do we get him to do what we want him to do. I think villain has made a larger raise and does not plan on folding. I think 9′s are most likely ahead here and am not folding them. Personnally, I shove now for the most fold equity. I do not want a call. If he does have an overpair, to bad for us.

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Being the real short stack at the final table with only 6 people left means that we have a HUGE target on our back. The jump in the money is so huge at this point, that no one wants to make a drastic move against one another until we are bust. The other problem with this, is that we have the HUGE stack sitting directly to our left. Which means our SB is going to be punished constantly.

This scenario is typical in online poker. His re-raise doesn’t mean a whole lot. This is just typical big stack bullying against what seems to be a steal attempt. Ya we have a tight image, but raising the BB is a standard operating procedure. Unless this guy woke up with TT+, which would be a pretty sick cooler, there is no doubt in my mind we have the best hand at the table. 99 is a monster at 6 max. We raised, and he reraised which is exactly what we wanted. This gives us 2 courses of action though:

We either shove it here, and run it out. Or Call and shove flop regardless. Calling commits us. Also, by calling, it becomes very clear that we do not have JJ+. It makes no sense why we would want to let them see a flop, when we only have one move left: all in. If you just call, and it comes 3 overs, are you really prepared to shove your tournament life into it? Cuz checking and folding are out of the question, you are going to be put all in.

I can see the idea of stop and go here. He is charging us 50k to see a flop. Let’s charge him 70k more to see all 5. I have a feeling we are in good shape here, worst case scenario a race, but even then we have the best hand. We are severely short, and we are going to have to make a move at some point, what better chance to do it with a monster 6 max hand vs. a guy who has enough chips to double us up? If he spikes his over card, so be it. We have very few moves left, and we cannot fold or reasonably call here. Ship it and hope for the best. We will probably get called, just because he is getting like 3.5:1 on his price, but when he flips over his A5 or whatever he was just trying to make a move with, we are most likely in really good shape. We are only losing to 5 hands, and he doesn’t have them, and worst case we have to dodge 6 cards. Shove the rest and let’s double up in this key spot.

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Agreed that v could be re stealing. Need to say we were not stealing and have a hand. Shove now and force a harder decision. Stop and to is ok but it is an easier decision for v. Shove.

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