Daily Hand Quiz

Sometimes we get great quizzes, other times we get ones like this…but hey, lets break it down Bobby Brown.
Firstly I’m not keen on the size of the c-bet. On a dry board, I’d rather bet $9 into $15, better chance of not losing your customer when you’re miles ahead.
In this spot I’m flat calling. we’re ahead, lets get some value. Weak players raise here, take down the pot and think they’re heroes, good players flat call and make money.
No way our V raises with a set, and its unlikely that our V holds Q9 or would raise with it if they did.
I’m putting V on AQ, KQ, JQ, 10Q type hand that they are trying to protect.
Whistle to yourself as you call, this sitch is a winner most days.

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the sage Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:34 am

Oh, and to the 10 people who have voted fold so far, can you let me know if you’re ever in Sydney

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Voted raise to 90 probably is likely called by a hand that is ahead. While I don’t think a set/2 pr is raising this flop, we have no strong read on the v, so a possibility exists. It is 6-handed so Q9 not out of the question. I believe KK vs AA occurs ~4% of the time, but this hand (KK) likely would have 3-bet the flop.

Raising <90 will keep QJ and Q10 in the hand, and the r-r may induce a shove from KQ. The strength of hero’s hand is disguised, so I think a r-r of $80 maximizes our value. We would be left with a comfortable $160 for the turn.

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beginning of post was cut-off … here is a paraphrase …

Voted r<90. Objective to get the V entire stack. Folding is obviously out.

Unless the v hits the turn, a marginal hand like 10-9 will not give us any more action anyway. So calling will not generate additional value and allows the v to set the price.

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Voted call. With raise the v may fold. Let them bet turn then raise them all in. Or bet turn if they check.

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I think samo and the sage are right, depending on your read. In a lot of the $1/2 games I play most of the people are chumps and will get it all in here with KQ, QJ etc. so a raise and rake in the pot is the perfect play.
Against a better opponent (which is rare in a $1/2 game) then a flat call for value is just right.
Interestingly, I had this hand against a good opponent this past weekend on a very similar flop and it turned out they had the set of 2′s. They check-raised to make their hand look like AQ or something like that and I fell for it. So I think the read is important here.
It is probably a good thing to point out that a set of 9′s or Q’s is unlikely because a good player would have 3 bet preflop because of position.

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Loki said: “In a lot of the $1/2 games I play most of the people are chumps and will get it all in here with KQ, QJ etc. so a raise and rake in the pot is the perfect play… Against a better opponent (which is rare in a $1/2 game)…”

This is $1/$2 online, not $1/$2 live. The average player at 200NL online is strong and aggressive. $1/$2 online is closer to $10/$20 live than $1/$2.

the sage said: “Firstly I’m not keen on the size of the c-bet. On a dry board, I’d rather bet $9 into $15, better chance of not losing your customer when you’re miles ahead.”

I agree with that. You should usually size your c-bets based on the preflop action and the texture of the flop. On dry flops I will bet 50-60% of pot as most hands will be of the WA/WB type (pair versus lower pair, kicker vs lower kicker, made hand vs. total air).

“In this spot I’m flat calling. we’re ahead, lets get some value. Weak players raise here, take down the pot and think they’re heroes, good players flat call and make money.”

Also this. I would probably flat with almost all of my range in this spot. Again, it’s a WA/WB spot so one of you is likely drawing thin. We don’t want to fold out the villain’s bluffs or top pairs, nor do we want to get completely owned by a set.

“No way our V raises with a set, and its unlikely that our V holds Q9 or would raise with it if they did.”

That’s not true. A check/raise is perfectly reasonable. The villain should (1) be trying to build a pot with strong hands and (2) would do it to balance out the times they check/raise with air. Always check/folding or check/calling would be pretty passive.

Check/raising a queen is probably not the best idea either as doing that plays badly against our range; our c-betting range is wide but by check/raising he’d fold out our weak hands and keep us in with stronger ones.

That’s not to say that a strong villain won’t check/raise top pair hands, but I think your overall assessment that a check/raise represents a medium-strength hand is a bit off the mark.

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_CityBorn_ Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 8:24 am

very good analysis. pretty much agree with everything. the bit about 1/2 online playing like 10/20 is true, but should be qualified. the relative skill level is close within each mode, but the 1/2 online and 10/20 live game themselves play very different. the aggression factor online cant be matched live unless youve found a really spicy table. its a factor of being able to hide your face and bulging neck veins behind a computer screen.

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samo Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

My thinking behind raising is based on hero image. Being agg, isn’t AA on a dry board the best possible sitch? We have established our image and present an expanded range to the table. Now is the time to take advantage, otherwise what is the point? Hero has also not had a showdown. I think a call from an agg hero may actually be viewed as strength relative to a r-r.

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John Kugelman Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

It says we’ve played aggressively, not maniacally. 25% VP$IP is on the loose side but not unusual. Prior to this we’d picked up 1/3 of a buy-in. Nothing special there.

Don’t overestimate the power of your image. We still want to play good, solid poker. Reraising simply applies too much pressure to the villain’s weaker hands.

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I’m just calling here. Let them hang themselves on this one. I’m betting the turn if checked to and raising the turn if they bet. Wouldn’t be surprised if I got rivered by 2 pair or something stupid like that though. Seems to happen to me a lot when I’m in the lead on the flop with only one pair.

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for those saying raise, think about what raising does for you? Its clearly not the correct move because you’re only getting action from hands that have you in bad shape. Fold is clearly not correct either. So that leaves us with call. If we call, he can barrel off a lot of weaker hands, and allows us to get more value out of our hand. We have been active and aggressive, so it is possible that he’s trying to play back at us, no need to shut him out of this pot.

Flat and re eval the turn.

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Agree with most of what’s said. Better to call here and get value.
Also – and this is a secondary consideration for sure – it’s helpful to our table image to get to showdown with strong holding. We’ll get a little more respect for the preflop aggression…

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@cds
Correct decision, wrong reasoning. You will absolutely get action here from hands that do not have you beat such as AQ, KK, KQ, QJ, QT, JT and maybe even JJ, TT, J9 etc. There is a wide range possible due to V flatting from the BB.
@John
True, online games are tougher at lower limits than live. I only play live so I forget about these things. Comparing it to 10-20 online might be a stretch or it may not, depending if you get the “seasoned regular” vs. the “rich guy/gal who thinks poker is like craps” type. But taking your adjustment into account, I would go with flat call for value. Live at a donkey casino I would consider a big old raise for value.

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