Daily Hand Quiz

I’m making it 5100 and snap calling a shove from anyone but the big stack blind in which case i’ll evaluate tendency and call begrudgingly.

Betting 1/2 pot or less is a poor play IMO because it prices in straight draws, but betting more comes with the disadvantage of shipping it in to a shove.

By betting the turn in any amount, you’re announcing you have at least an A, and probably 2 pair, given your position and 2nd bullet. I’m not concerned with B or D as neither would flat with QT (or obviously a bigger PP) preflop, the only possible player with this holding is the blind. Plus any shove by anyone other than the blind mathematically prices you in.

I’m just not sure I could get away from a BB shove as I would have to be POSITIVE he’s holding the nuts.

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Jeff Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 1:43 am

Forgot to mention, it’s important not to overbet here because I don’t want hands I dominate to fold. 1/2-ish pot is all it takes to get the drawing hands to fold and the rest I want to keep on the line.
It is entirely possible that B has smooth called us w/ AK or even AJ and will shove this turn to a tentative bet by us. So give him the rope.
D is very weak and has missed his draw. Anything 2 pair or better on flop would have popped it. Same goes for the blind (unless he’s got he nuts)

I’m betting just over 1/2 pot and hoping someone makes a mistake

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Check / Call.

I want to extract at least two streets of value from this hand and I don’t think betting here is going to do that.

It is almost certain that someone floated this flop with an ace. An underpair is also extremely likely to appear in one of our opponents hands. If we fire a second barrel now i think we risk coming over as too strong and folding these weaker hands out.

If we check here and it checks through our opponents are much more likely to call our river value bet with hands they can’t call a turn bet with fearing the third barrell.

There is also the chance that our display of weakness will embolden a turn bet from one of the two players behind. This would be great for two reasons: they are value betting themselves for us and the bb’s reaction is something we are keen to observe.

Check-Call and lead river.

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_CityBorn_ Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 7:34 am

Im usually with you black fair, but I couldnt disagree more on this one. Mayyyyybe a dry ace calls the flop and would fold to a second barrel, but that would be only one of 3 opponents, and no way an underpair stays in a multi way pot with 3 broadway cards on the flop. Also, I think if the ace calls the flop, its more likely they call a reasonable bet on a blank turn than fold to it. Im thinking just over half pot. Also, if they are going to fold here, checking the turn is unlikely to get us anymore on the river as theyd probably fold to a river bet as well.

Checking here is giving a free draw to anyone with a pair/draw combo or 2 pair, which are the most likely holdings we’re beating. We should extract value and make them either pay to draw or call with a worse hand.

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black fair Reply:
November 6th, 2009 at 8:59 am

So what hands do you think are opponents are calling this flop with? 3 people called, what hands are out there?

The only draw on the flop is a gutshot.

Made hands like two pair and aces have to know when we bet UTG and fire two barrels on this flop that we have hit it hard, especially given our image.

Obviously we are c-betting that flop 100% of the time so I think aces and pockets will peel given the implied odds.

Anyone who peeled that flop with an ace is going to have a hard time folding to a thin value bet on the river when the turn checks around, especially given our read as them being average.

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I’m with the leaders here – $5,200 – the danger of a free card, as well as the chance to build the pot. At least one or more of the callers has an A, and AK is a possibility. Don’t let the opportunity get by to build with the top hand. Yes, Q10 is ahead, but not sure that would be called to a TAG EP raise.

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You gotta lead. No one is bluffing, or betting a bare Ace here with 3 other people in the hand. Two pair is also probably checking. The only way to get any sort of money into the pot is to lead out. Odds are that the hand will end, but that’s good because it is likely that no more money is getting into the pot even if you give the table a free river card.

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First of all I would be quite puzzled after getting 3 callers with this flop after we fired a c-bet. I mean one, maybe two, but THREE? Somebody must have AK/AQ/AJ but they cannot *all* be flatting with ragged aces and anyone sticking around in this with an underpair (other than TT which at least has some kind of an excuse) must have trouble seeing cards in the middle and counting people in the pot.

This means that two pair hands and gutshots feature prominently in our opponents ranges and while currently we can assume that we have the best hand (barring a freak chance that BB snuck in preflop with QT), since it is a bottom set it is not quite as bulletproof as we’d like it to be.

So I will protect my hand and lead for 5,500.

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black fair Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 1:54 am

If the only hands you are protecting against are gutshot and two pairs, why are you worried about protecting your hand from a free river card?

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catcher Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 2:17 am

It is every A, K, Q and T that I would rather not see on the river. It is virtually certain that those 3 guys cover some of each others outs, so we don’t need to fade all those 14 cards – but even if we remove 5 it will leave us with 9 live outs, which is basically a flush draw. Now, if you flopped a bottom set against a single player on a 2-flush board and got called on flop – would you give a free card at turn in order to extract a thin value bet at river?

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black fair Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 8:14 am

4 outs for a gutshot, 4 outs for a two pair hand.

two pair is unlikely to call three streets given an UTG tight player raise and three barrells on this board.

bet the river, not the turn to extract value.

Checking the turn here gives you the most strategic value.

catcher Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 11:42 am

Yeah, I guess that’s where we differ – I don’t *want* to have *three* people hang around for free with their 4-outers, especially not in a tourney and not when I am out of position. While I do agree that our second barrel is more likely to get called on a bricked river than when we bet this turn, it also runs the risk that one of those 4-outers gets there.

As I said, for me checking this turn with 3 other players in the pot is very much like checking with a set OOP on a 2-flush board heads up after having our flop bet called.

Jeff Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

To simplify further, if you check and get bet into…whats your plan? Shove or Call/lead river? If your hand is good enough to call, it’s good enough to bet.

I like to be in positions where i’m betting so often, players devalue my range. That way, when I do have a hand, I get paid off.

black fair Reply:
November 7th, 2009 at 11:41 pm

@Jeff

as mentioned in my first post I would check-call and lead river.

being bet into on this turn would be perfect.

“if your hand is good enough to call, its good enough to bet”

obviously our hand is good enough to bet. the question here for me is about the best way to extract value.

also our image is tight for this quiz. so clearly we haven’t being betting often and our range isn’t devalued. if our image was LAG we would definately bet this turn.

@catcher

our opponents are almost always going to have a few outs on the river in every hand we play. rarely are our opponents going to be drawing totally dead. Fading a few outs is standard, and if thats what it takes to extract the most value from this mulitway pot then I’m not at all concerned by the free card.

I wouldn’t put Q,10 on the table. So I could argue just shoving the turn, or making it something around 5700. If short stack was hold’n his breath preflop with Q,10. You dont need to push allin and risk 12000, if you can make a stiff bet that all of both stacks. The seat to the left, I would think is even less likely to be carrying the Q,10, so a 5700 is the correct bet. It should be enough to put the shortstack allin and pressure the other opponents whole stack. I take my time and bet 5760. Then you just hope one of your opponents didnt get impatient and gamble preflop with a Q,10. And lets not forget the weak preflop callers with A,A or K,K.

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lol
all i can say is ditto to black fair,, out

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Could be numerous calling hands on this flop – in addition to AK, AQ, AJ you could have KQ, QJ, J10, KJ in suited or even unsuited hands, not to mention the possibility that someone (big blind) snuck in with Q10 or even someone trying a slowplay on AA, KK, QQ or 1010. I am betting more than half the pot to find out where I am, and not give someone on a draw the oportunity to take this pot away from me on the river when a 10 or Q comes. 7700 chips is a lot of chips at this point, and I am happy to take it down here if possible.

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why not check and then shove or raise any bet from the other players in the hand?

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noob Reply:
November 8th, 2009 at 12:18 am

or rather bet accordingly, within reason to their bet. you are going to have someone with an A open if you check that hand, with that many players. If someone else re-raises that b4 the action is back to you, obv fold

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