Daily Hand Quiz

If we were in pos I’d 100% flat this c’bet to try and pick up another bet on the turn. OOP if we call with the plan of CRAI the turn (giving opp ~ 4 to 1 on the call) then we fail to make more money if opp (likely) checks behind. Check calling this flop screams a monster. With our call the pot becomes bigger than our remaining stack so shove now hoping that opp calls with an overpair containing a club.

[Reply]

Raise 2/3 the pot. It will make it look like you have something like AcKx and you are trying to pick up the pot. An aggressive opponent probably won’t suspect that you have the big overpair to go with that flush draw. If you don’t hit the club on the turn, you put it all in the middle and villain stacks off to you thinking you have a busted flush.

On a side note, I hate the pre-flop flat by our hero here. Since you are a tight player anyway, there isn’t much difference pre-flop between a raise and a flat call from you. Either way villain knows you have something worth playing, and if you raise you can get him/her to make the ultimate mistake. Sure, this was a fantastic flop for hero’s AA, but what if it had been 3 hearts? So many aggressive online players stack off to AA it’s not even funny. Play back and build the pot pre-flop.

[Reply]

Voted call. I think the v will not read monster by hero call, but simply calling a c-bet by an agg player who has pos. Perhaps putting you on an overpair or a big overcard that is a club. The size of the c-bet may also indicate a big club in their hand. I think they’ll fire again on the turn, so I’d plan to CRAI regardless of card. I’d like to try and build the pot with a flop call vs. a flop CR.

[Reply]

Raising 2/3rds pot leaves us with 1500! Calling strikes me as fancy play syndrome and relies on opp betting the turn. There is a 60% pickup available right now. Ship it.

[Reply]

I’m raising AI here because:

I find it very unlikely i’ll be able to extract any further value with a call.

Calling w/ this slippery board screams strength

Most importantly, I’d be shoving this with a ton of other hands less strong than this one and am hoping to convey some weakness. I shove with 66+ or even AJ+ given the preflop play and I’m hoping he has an OP also and will stack off.

Really though, i’m not going to make anymore money unless he has an OP or straight and flush draws

Loki made a good point about how calling and raising pre are very similar given our tight image and so calling here only confirms you’ve got a monster.

[Reply]

Nice math Richard P. 2/3 of 3865 = 2576. 6346 – 2576 = 3770.

Don’t worry, 3770 is pretty close to 1500. Try again next time.

[Reply]

@ Loki

Ups, you forgot to include our call before we raise the pot

[Reply]

Heheh, maybe I should look at the table first. Ship it mates!

[Reply]

Who says we have to check the turn if we call the flop? I’m calling here and then betting right into the villain on the turn.

[Reply]

@John Kugelman
Because if villian it is much more likely that the villian will only put more in on the flop, he will most likely be on check/fold imo if flat called then lead into. Check raise also seems too strong to get him to put more in. I’d rather have raised preflop and then check raised flop. Overbetting the turn might work too.

[Reply]

Again, I just don’t see us getting anymore chips from him beyond this cbet, unless he’s got an OP or set already, neither of which are likely based on his soft cbet amount.

I think the best play is to overbet AI and make him think we’re making a play.

The problem with flatting the flop is, we’re going to have to check the turn and he’s in shutdown mode. Our only hope then is for the flush to make it and he’s holding a good club in which case we’ll have to make some micro bet on the end.

I just dont see us making any more money off him, so let’s get it in and hope he makes a mistake.

[Reply]

Good words Jeff. I think villain’s calling range is much broader on the flop due to the fact that we might be pulling a move.

[Reply]

I could go either way, but voted call. Im just thinking if he has air, the only real way to make more is call and check again like we’re on a draw or floating. If he has something, he’ll likely bet again if a blank hits. Conversely if a club his and he doesnt have one, it’ll kill the action, and if he has a hand with showdown value and he is a good player, he’ll likely check behind on the turn to read the situation better on the river. i dont think theres one or another that works best for all scenarios. a lot depends on the history of his actions and what you think he’s likely holding and what he’s likely to do on the turn. sometimes you just have to guess if you dont know.

@ john kugelman

i have a sincere interest in understanding the logic behind the check-call and then lead play. as long as ive been playing poker, this move has confused me….i just cant figure out quite what it represents (unless of course a club hits or an ace and youre representing that).

[Reply]

Call.

If we were going to raise this flop, the place to do it was to lead out for 40-50% pot to look like a stealer/feeler bet. As is, a check raise will either shut down action or induce a fold with your slightly tight image and lack of aggression aka rock. If you had a very aggressive image, it may look spewy and induce a rereraise, but here it will freeze the action.

If we call, villain might put us on the flush draw with an over or two. That means if a non-club comes on the turn and we check, villain, being fairly aggressive, might bet 2/3 the pot. You tank then if you shove and it might look spewy as in you won’t fold an over draw or whatever, but at least you get that significant 2/3 pot bet. If you tank and call then that’s okay too as he’ll probably put you allin on the river if he has air and river blanks.

[Reply]

@McCowish

I think that’s pretty spot on for most situations w/ aggressive players, but not sure it’s appropriate here.

IMO, it’s imperative to read into his cbet. He bets 1/2 pot…to me that’s so weak. Look at this flop, it’s as messy as can be. If he has any sort of hand, would’t you think he’s going to bet at least 2/3? Betting 1/2 pot says either he has a giant hand, or he’s got absolute air.

On the turn: Going into the tank and making a sheepish call may work, but if a club hits, like you said, action is over. If it doesn’t, do you really think he’ll throw out another bet? If he was trying to bluff us off on the flop he’d have bet more than an amount that just aches for a call w/ odds. All of a sudden he’s going to try and beef it up w/ 2/3 on the turn? I don’t think so, especially since it would price him into calling our shove. I think he checks behind.

Then on the river: If a club hits, checking isn’t an option b/c he clearly won’t bet, so we can really only micro bet it and hope for a call. If a non-club hits, he may try and make a stab, but only if he hits something i think. We’re tight and played it so slowly we probably have some showdown value w/ a strong A. He’s not going to try and bluff us off unless he’s got AK (mathematically so improbable, not even worth considering). We know he doesn’t have any pair b/c he’d have bet it harder on the flop.

In summation, his flop amount tells the story…what do you think?

[Reply]

In retrospect, i think it boils down to the liklihood of him improving w/ his 6 outs and then betting vs. his calling a perceived bluff if she shove.

Someone would have to run the simulator on this one, but I imagine calling has a better EV. 24% (assuming no clubs) vs. x% of him calling our shove…. so does he call us 1/4 of the time? Probably not.

However, in the occasions he does call we stand to win stacks as opposed to the tiny bet he’ll risk if he hits something on the turn or river.

[Reply]

@_CityBorn_

I like the check/call, lead the turn play precisely because it is confusing. It’s a very unusual play and on a monochrome flop it can definitely throw the villain for a loop.

I think the line most often means one of two things:

(1) You’re floating on the flop and want to take it down on the turn. You risk less money than if you check/raise the turn, and you have a better chance at taking down the pot than if it goes check/check and you bet the river.

(2) The villain is likely to check behind on the turn, and you want to extract value. Betting into them might get a call when they’d prefer to check, or it might induce a bluff-raise if they suspect you’re trying a blocking bet with a draw.

In this hand the villain is highly likely to check behind the turn. I definitely want to build this pot and try to stack off before the river. A fourth club would make our hand but would also be a total action killer. And betting into an aggressive player is a strange and suspicious move since that’s normally one of those things you just don’t do. Even a majorly aggressive villain will likely slow down on a board like this and we don’t want that.

In general, I think poker players tend to overuse check/raises and don’t bet into aggressors enough. It’s just like when you raise preflop and then somebody donks into you on the flop, not letting you c-bet. Confusing and annoying, right?

[Reply]

Just ship it OK

[Reply]