Daily Hand Quiz

Call in Position.

Check-Raise out of position.

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I like the call from position. It helps to get that extra bet on the turn from a hand that is only c-betting the flop. Also, it makes your call-call pattern look like a strong hand when you ship it on the turn if you do miss. Pocket jacks perhaps?

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Call due to position.

What really happened?

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Hmmm. I voted raise. Don’t know why you *want* action with a draw like this. Raising here has a ton of fold equity, and if op was just c-betting, you take it down without having to hit or represent a darn thing. If you get called or re-popped, well, didn’t work out.

I think raising is the most straightforward play and protects your comfortable stack nicely.

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i call, but im not raising the turn. im calling the turn (regardless of what hits), and only raising the river if i make my flush. this may seem like a weak line, but im not going broke on a draw with a deep stack to play with. plus it could smell like a trap to opp and he slows down, adding showdown value to our hand if he doesnt have much.

i dont know if im right on this one, but thats how id play it. id also play a set like this though, so a lot of it has to do with your image at the table and history with the opponent.

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I call, call the turn.

I like how CityBorn mentions how he’d play a set here against an aggressive opponent. This is how I play it as well and leaves me unreadable for future clashes.

Is his 1050/1100 a standard cbet amount? It seems a little high, perhaps he’s actually hit his J or has a PP<J.

Regardless, given that he is an aggressive player, i find it unwise to be betting and raising him. Usually that’s the last thing one wants to do against someone willing to throw around a lot of chips.

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Voted raise. Unless the v flopped a set, you are a fav to take this hand. With a 95% pot-bet on the flop, I don’t believe a set. The raise on the flop is more likely to be called than a turn or riv raise, so don’t miss this chance to build the pot. Also, may get you a free turn. Being TAG also adds to the possibility of taking it down now as well.

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@ samo2

I agree with the general thinking that you’re a fav to win, so get chips in when you’re ahead, but in this case, what are you representing w/ a flop raise?

If you have a strong hand, you’re going to sit on it and wait for his 2nd barrel, especially since he’s aggressive?

Would you raise a set on the flop here? No.

Would you raise 2 pair? Usually yes, but again, given his image, it would make more sense to trap w/ position.

I do however like your line of getting a cheap turn and that would be great, but what if he shoves to your raise? Do you call?

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@_CityBorn_
6.15.09 / 6am

i call, but im not raising the turn. im calling the turn (regardless of what hits), and only raising the river if i make my flush. this may seem like a weak line, but im not going broke on a draw

You say “this may seem like a weak line”.

Well,this line is worldwide known as FISHY OR WIMPY LINE.

I would actually checkraise this flop for about 3 times.If villain folds ,brilliant.If he calls and checks to me, I am in position and I would take a free card,no hitting Iam done.

If villain 3bets me on the flop and with his history as an aggresive player I would gladly ship it in.

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@ alekhine11

first of all, you wouldnt be check raising since youre in position. second of all, your play is exactly how an aggressive player makes his money when he hits a hand. your line ships about 80 bb’s and your tourney life when youre wrong or dont hit your draw.

my play may be “fishy or wimpy” according to you, but im getting to the river without risking my tourney, and i become a frustrating unreadable opponent to an oop aggressive player who doesnt know if im drawing or trapping in future hands. im using my position which is the greatest single advantage you can have in poker. im not leaving it up to luck and being blindly aggressive with my tourney on the line. if my hand is best, i will win (more than you would have), if my hand is not, i wont be on the rail.

this is deepstack poker, putting 80 bb’s all in on the flop with a draw is actually the weaker play in my opinion.

@ jeff and samo2

i also agree with the idea that putting in a raise here might get us to a river for cheaper. i see that as the one potential advantage to raising. raising for pot control, not to jam since we are likely to be slightly ahead percentage wise if v does not have a set.

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@ Jeff
- I am representing AJ, an overpair, or overcards like the actual hand. The v is agg and open-raising, so the range is wide. I am trying to take pot now and add 25%+ to my stack.
- I would not raise a set, but would raise 2 pair on a slippery board.
- If the v shoves, I give them credit and fold. Still cheaper than calling a blank on the turn, and missing the riv.

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I think that so far each person has had good things to say. There aren’t many bad ways to play this hand. The raise is a standard semi-bluff play (although hero might be ahead) and the raise has decent fold equity, although I’m not sure villain would fold jacks here. I also don’t think villain has the set unless it’s 4′s.

When I am playing people get really suspicious when I smooth call a flop raise. That’s because I also would do that for a set and thus a call here is “bluffing the slowplay.” Then on the turn the flop call adds extra fold equity and hero gets to take down a nice pot whether villain checks or bets the turn.

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” cITY..”

First of all let me congratulate you for your brilliant reply to my former post.

Let me clarify that where I stated checkraise I meant to say raise,sorry for that.

Your reasoning through the hand is totally understandable,but:

You are assuming villain has a good hand that already beats you(doubtful).Failing to raise here could cost you to lose your hand if you do not hit and he does.

Whatsmore I think village range here could be sth like AQ,AJo,KQs,88+..being the tightish,and as you see, contain lots of hands that do not connect with the board at all.Out of this very very tight range from a cut off opener there is just one hand you should be really afraid of—–JJ.

Finally,from the point of view of villain and with that raise from a guy with position,should you not be scared of it?After all he does not know what you hold,you could yourself have a set…or…blah,blah

The point is that you can obviously play the hand calling it down;What I am trying to show to you is that in poker AGGRESSION PAYS OFF.This spot is a clear example of it.

I would try myself a raise here not with AQdd,thats the easy one,but with say 66 that failed to improve.

Believe me in the long run ,the money is here.

Nothing wrong with your approach but,please,think of it,from a different perspective and do not assume villain always hit hard the board.

80 BBs deep? I probably would not call a reraise from him (after my raise) knowing he is a very tight player.Not being the case he also have to be scared to play for 80BBs.Would you play for your whole stack there, being villain ,with ,say AA,against a guy described as TAG?…..IT DEPENDS,OF COURSE IT DEPENDS.

What i am trying to say here is that aggression pays and that agression scares the hell out of most players.If you happen to find tough resistance,no problem ,back off and move on,but bear in mind that next hands the table are going to look at you in a different manner,they are gonna respect you,and most important,they are gonna fear you.

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I would absolutely raise a set here on a straightening and flushing flop to deny the right odds to hit and get opponent committed to the hand if he has an overpair and potentially 3bet us with AJ. This is not an UTG raise, 10-9 or Q-10 could easily show up here.

With potentially 15 outs and a good amount of FE I shove this on the flop for a 25% pick up. Raising and then folding to a 3bet getting ~ 2 to 1 is dumb, calling it down is far superior. Far trickier is calling the flop bet to raise the turn but I’d rather put the v to the test on the flop so that I don’t wimp out and make the most of my equity.

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Villain and I have a little over 8K in the stacks. Once I call, I have 7200. Pot will be 3100. If he two-barrels for around 2K, I can float that, too, leaving 5200 in my stack and 7100 in the pot. That will allow me to get to the river with 5200, and shove if I hit, shove if I airball but think he’s on nothing, too, or fold to his shove if I airball and still have a reasonable stack.

Perfect spot for us to play position. We could even shove-raise the turn if we felt like he was still on air. We have a ton of options. If we raise here with a draw, and he 3-bet shoves, what do we do? Stake our life on a diamond? If he 3-bet shoves, it’s likely that he has a set, AJ, or QQ+, all of which leave us drawing to our flush or maybe one over, if we’re lucky.

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I agree with the call for the reason Jeff mentioned. Yes, you are a favorite but that doesn’t guarantee you dont brick out. If he shoves, do you want to stack off on a draw and brick?

Call and reevaluate.

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@ Alekhine11

The table won’t respect you or fear you the next hand if you got felted because of your aggresive play on the flop, got all your chips in the middle, but didn’t hit you’re hand.

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@ Samo2
Thanks for replying to my query

@ The rest of you:

The lead in mentions the rebuy just ended. Does the average stack, remaining players, places paid, change the dynamic of your decision? If yes, how so?

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I think the only thing that should impact how you play is how you’re stack compares to the blinds.

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I voted call.

Case for raising:

Raise to 4200,

It’s a pot-size bet (you match his then raise pot), and it tell him you’re committing to this hand as your receiving odds with the pot on any call to put your stack into and are serious about the hand. If he reshoves, he has one of the following:
88,JJ,QQ, KK, AA , KJd, and perhaps J10d and if unlikely, but if he’s a poor player, AJ. Your committing yourself as you’ll have odds if he reshoves, but he probably doesn’t know that. Thus, you won’t be bluffed as he’ll likely fold anything else. The downside is if he wasn’t bluffing, everything that would act that way and call is ahead of your hand. QJ, J10 are hands he’ll fold that are ahead of yours.

QQ:3cc
KK:6cc
AA:3cc
88:3cc
JJ:3cc
KdJd:1cc
Jd10d:1cc
AJ:9cc
KJ:9cc

modifiers: all same except .2 for Jd10d, .8 for KJ, .9 for AJ.

Opponents range
Modifers*number of dupl situations* card combinations :4*3+6+1+.2*1+.8*9+.9*9=34.5

AdQd chance to win…
vs queens, 47%
vs kings, 46.5%
vs AA, 38%
vs eights, jacks, 26.5%
vs KJd, 49%
vs Jd10d, 47.5%
vs AJ 47.2%
vs KJ 54.5%
Chance you win against his reraising range:
Mod*cc*your winning decimal: 3*.47+6*.465+3*.38+2*3*.265+1*.49+.2*1*.475+.8*9*.545+.9*9*.472=15.8

15.8/34.5=.458-> 45.8% chance of winning vs his reraising range.

Your a little behind, but a decent chance of winning vs the range. Now since he’s aggressive, what happens could he raise preflop from late position (i know quiz says med pos but it’s wrong) with and behavior that way on the flop and fold?

Now I need to find his opening range for betting pf and his range for cbeting post flop that folds to a reraise. As an aggressive, I assume he raises and cbets his pairs >=55, his missed overs, and the hands that hit that we said folded. For his missed overs, I assumed because he was neither TAG or LAG as image he plays as overs only J10s and QJs if they are suited and non-diamonds while KJ, AJ, KQ, AQ, and AK may be suited or unsuited. Over the overs that hit and he was ahead and would fold a small percentage: .2 for KJ and .1 for AJ.

pairs: 55,66,77,99,1010.
overs hit and fold: J10s, QJs, KJ,AJ
overs miss and fold: KQ, AQ, AK

math range cc
pairs: 5*6=30 cc
overs hit and fold: 3+2+.2*9+.1*9=7.7cc
overs miss and fold: 12+9+12=33 cc
total cc of oppo that fold to your reraise: 70.7cc

Then I’ll find the associate card combinations associated with his fold to reraise range. I can then calculate his total card combinations by cc fold + cc raise = total cc and then ccfold and cc/raise will be give me a scenario distribution of what will happen and ccfold * foldedpot + ccraisewin*raisedpot-ccraiselose*raisedpot=2*expectedgain for hand.

His total cc= 70.7+34.5=105.2 cc

so I’ll raise and he’ll fold 70.7/105.2=67.2% of the time and I’ll be reraised or call-raised on the turn 32.8% of the time.

2 times my expectatedgain for hand is: (70.7/105.2)*3225+(15.8/105.2)*17645-(18.7/105.2)*17645=1681
1680/2=840.5
My expected gain from my opponent’s stack on average is 840 chips.
Scenario distribution: 67.2% of the time you win a small pot as is, 15.0%of the time you win a big all-in pot, and 17.8% of the time you lose your stack and are eliminated from the tournament.

If someone feels up for analyzing the case for calling so we can compare the two go for it.

Case for calling:

If you call, in my opinion with the flop board, he’ll lead into you on any turn with overs or 99+ probably around 2/3 pot. So for a 1000 investment on flop, you get…a guarantee that if any non-jack diamond hits you win the hand and if the river doesn’t pair teh board you stand to know you make a lot of money.

If I miss and he bets 2/3 pot, I check-fold.

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I’m calling this one. With a big size bet and his aggresive image, he might do this with air. I’m calling this and hope to hit the flush. and if I miss and opponent check I will check back, in this situation opponent will bet the river on whatever the card and I will call if I hit A or Q and fold if I don’t and fight another day to this agggresive player.

If the turn is a complete blank, and opponent bet big again I’d fold.

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