Daily Hand Quiz

What we said then: Jacks are an annoying hand when you’re an aggressive player. The basic problem is they’re seriously at the top end of the range most of your opponents are going to be putting you on. That makes playing them with shorter stacks pretty easy.

However, when stacks get deeper, it’s trickier, because while people may have broad three betting ranges against you, their five betting (or four bet shove calling) range is doing pretty well against JJ. In other words: when you do get all the money in deep, you’re generally behind with JJ.

Give that you raised the last hand and were forced to pitch and that your opponent is in early position, I’m going to go ahead and give the re-raiser more credit than usual. You’re not getting the odds to call to spike a jack, and you’re going to have to play the hand out of position. I say this is either a shove or fold situation, and with as little as we have invested right now and our quality chip position, I’m leaning toward fold.

What actually happened: You shoved and were shown AA. You failed to hit a jack and lost the hand.

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I feel like this quiz was her just yesterday.

I voted fold then, and I do it again now.

Early positions, and nasty stacks for doubling overpairs. Your stack allows you to get far without taking marginal chances in big pots in early positions. If you loose 60% of your stack, by the next blinds increase you will be in pushbot mode. The chips you can win are not worth as much as those you can lose.

You are dominated by overpairs or flipping vs AK way too often with action from these positions, and though not crippled, stacks at this point just dont allow you to call and get away on any flop without overs.

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Totally agree with above.

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I voted call.

The player is aggressive and thinks that you’re aggressive too. He may have hit a marginal hand (A10, QJ, J10) or lower pair and figure that you will either lay the hand down (as you did before) or put him on a steal and play back at him with a sub-standard hand.

Once I’ve seen a flop I decide what to do, if it looks innocuous then I check-raise him on the flop and see where I stand. If he re-raises or calls then I’d probably lay down my Jacks unless they improve on the turn.

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What would people do with QQ in this spot?

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I voted fold. You’re likely flipping against AK/AQ or dominated by a higher pair. It’s unlikely you’re ahead with jacks.

This is a very difficult hand to play out of position. If you call and hope for no overcards you could end up stacking off against QQ-AA. Unless you flop a set you’re going to have a very difficult time playing this hand out. Position is crucial here.

Also I don’t subscribe much to the belief that people will 3-bet light because they’ve seen you fold to a re-raise. If you were constantly raising, perhaps, but one raise/fold and suddenly the wolves are at the door?

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I wonder why staff says to give villain MORE credit because he’s seen you raise and fold to a three-bet. Wouldn’t that mean he is more likely to raise you light? I’m not saying he’s raising with rags, but I certainly wouldn’t think he’s stronger because he saw me pitch to a re-raise earlier. If I deducted anything from that, I’d think he were raising with a broader range.

I think the people who voted fold only did so because they saw the result of the hand. I think 99% of the time, everybody from the earliest rookie to the seasoned professional will at minimum call here. You have absolutely no reason to believe villain has AA-QQ at this point, and your M is still around 18. Folding is absurd. However, I also think raising/shoving is ridiculous. I think calling is your best play. The likely hands you are up against are big broadway or pocket pairs, which means you have plenty of room to evaluate the flop. If it comes all overs, you can safely check. If it’s unders, you can put out a standard bet (around 7k) and evaluate from there. But shoving for 7x villain’s 3-bet, again, tells me you don’t know how to play post-flop.

Yes, playing JJ is extremely tough. But it’s still the 4th best possible starting hand. You have no reason to assume villain has you beat right now. Call and evaluate (and learn to play post-flop!). A good player will be able to get away from this hand if he’s beat after the flop.

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With QQ I call. Half the time I donk bet a low or King-high flop and fold to a raise. The other half I check/raise and lose twice as much. If there’s an Ace on the flop I probably check/fold and feel disgusted for playing so weakly. If I spike a Queen I think a check/raise all-in is called for.

On average I probably lose $12,000 or so against AA here.

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usually once you got a re-raise like this it is either a big pocket pair or AK, although some morons might try to resteal with any Ace, KQ or smaller pockets than Jacks, but since it is unlikely they will do this from MP i feel that there are three hands that dominate us and one that we are flipping against, so it is certainly not bad to lay down our Jacks. with Queens we only have to ask ourselves if he adds Jacks to his range for a re-raise against an UTG+1 opening. totally changes once i have spotted him as a lagtard, then i most prolly shove it allin and if really behind hope to suck out for a huge pot, after all if we lose we are still alive with about 15xBB.

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i said it then and ill say it again. jacks are too good to fold, and there is no reason to raise. with stacks this deep you HAVE to be able to play after the flop. call and use those poker skills. i dont raise qq either, or aa for that matter. i prob raise kk just to avoid that disastrous ace on the flop scenario we all love. opponents image is fairly aggressive, and he JUST saw us fold to reraise. he couldnt be making a play now with any number of hands figuring we’re generally raising fairly light and will fold under pressure? i have his range at 77+ and AQ+ with a slight chance of a wacky move with something like suited connectors.

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great ananlysis Rhycar. I agree. I am not walking away from this hand that easily.

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Voted call aiming to trap villain to an all in on the flop

Calling makes an 11K pot on the flop, villain has 18K putting them in a horrible spot. If you check flop and there are no overs you want to get it all in. If opponent c-bets, even only 6K and you re-raise all in they’ll have a hard time folding even AK cos for them it’s 12K into a monster pot of 35K. Cos of annoying stack size villain probably more likely to panic shove missed flop, which is great for you

If there are any overs on the flop i’d just check/fold

Don’t get why people are worried about QQ-AA, those hard are RARE, and if you’re unlucky enough to be facing one, well that’s poker

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It totally depends on previous hands and how much he has been raising with what hands. Just by saying he is aggressive is not enough info for me to know what I would do. I would need to see all the previous hands, and also what he usaully does after the flop if does not hit. Has he came that much over the top with large cards or small pocket pairs. If he has AK or AQ your ahead yes, but not by much, and you are first to act. Even if He has J10 and a high card comes out you are done if he has one or not, because now if he is a good player you will put you on a pair and fire out and push you. To me being first to act in that spot is all in or fold. Only calling is not an option in the spot.

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the problem with calling is that you don’t have the odds to setmine against him. and with a couple of negative outs (A,K,Q -> 12!) it makes it supertricky to play postflop OOP (once you get involved in a hand where you had to invest some money, you want more than just one option to win that hand). if foe was way deeper two things change, first he is more likely to put a play on us by using his chips instead of his pockets so a reshove could do the job (definitely not judging from one single observation) and second we get better odds to call in hope we hit the flop hard, so he can double us up if he is really strong. still even a JTQ flop would be pretty ugly …
PS: after all you have to be able to let Jacks go in EP if you want to become a better player, just dont talk yourself into calling or shoving when the situation makes it more likely that you are a huge underdog, biggest NL sins being: overvaluing midpairs, AQ early and AJ, KQo from anywhere, generally playing vulnerable hands OOP, mixing up your own experience with others perception -> laying down one hand doesn’t make you a weak tight loser,even if you feel like one, rather a thinking player that has to be dealt with precaution; laying down three hands in a row after having raised preflop now you are the weak tight donkey who needs the nuts to be able to go to war (if you are a nit like Phil Hellmuth, you might still lay your hands down, but start whining about it, otherwise you reshove ATC).
PPS: watch any of e.g. Annette’s winning videos and you will have to admit that making bad calls/shoves in certain spots but being hugely rewarded by sucking out against a bigger or equally big stack is a big factor in going for first place. you dont do it on purpose and you dont do it more than once or twice, but sometimes you have to go with it, depending on your read of the player and of the situation and your feel. imho

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I am somewhat biased since I have been in this situation a few times, been on the fence between folding/shoving and decided to shove (I am an aggressive gambler) Every time thus far I have been up against a larger pair or 2 overcards and lost.

Now when I get JJ in early position and are re-raised I grit my teeth and throw it away.

Your stack size makes this an even easier fold.

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