Nuts on the turn facing a raise, nl tournament

DailyHandQuiz

Game type: $50 buy in tournament on Full Tilt Poker
Stage of tourney: Early
Your image: You’ve taken some good hands to showdown
Opponent’s image: No strong read
Your hand: T♣8♣

The setup: It’s still very early in this $50 buy in no limit tournament on FTP when you get dealt T8s. The table folds to the button, who limps. You complete and the BB checks. You flop a gutshot:

J♦4♠7♥

You check and it checks around. You turn the nuts:

9♥

You lead for 140 and the BB folds. The button raises you to 480. What’s your play?

Loading ...

11 COMMENTS (Jump to comment form)

DHQ Staff

Being out of position is a drag. It’s hard to imagine what the button could hold that would explain him seeming uninterested on the flop and suddenly very interested on the turn. He could have flopped or turned a set (although you’d expect JJ and 99 to raise the button preflop). He also could have improved to some sort of draw on the turn, or maybe he played pot control on the flop with a J and is now looking to protect his hand (or possibly turned two pair with it).

I think the most likely scenario is an improved draw. You’re not going to get much value out of these hands when they miss, and you have an incentive to charge them now, while they’re still drawing, so I like a raise here. It also gets two pair and trips closer to committing more quickly than a call.

If the stacks were shallower, or if you were in position, a call would be more attractive, but as you’re out of position and need to build the pot, I’m saying raise to 1180 or so.

What actually happened: You pushed and your opponent folded.

[Reply]

kaimano

There’s no hand that would fold here to a raise but would call being second best on the river. If he has two pair or trips he’ll pay us, if he has a single jack (improbable) he’ll anyway fold to a big river bet and if he has a flush draw, it’s better to charge him now for his draw. I raise.

[Reply]

Richard P

I’d raise another 700-800 to get more money in now when have the best hand and charge the flush or boat draws. If in position I would consider the check in terms of whether it would be more +EV to reraise the turn and risk opp folding vs calling to try to get a worse hand or busted flush to bet out. Unless the v is super aggressive I still think raising is the superior play.

[Reply]

Mike

Just call the raise, then overbet the river; the idea is to get as many chips as you can from this overplayer. You have the nuts, keep in mind, so at most the guy has maybe 10 outs going into the river. I like my chances.

[Reply]

Landorf

But why take your chances with a boat, tied straight, or flush draws?

[Reply]

PatA

I also voted “call”, because I like to slow down against the over aggressive player. It does however, create some tough decisions on the river. Raising here is a good option as your guaranteed that he’ll call or play back at you with 2 pair or better.

[Reply]

samo2

I put the v on a flush draw so I’ll raise to 800.

[Reply]

samo2

Charge the v to see the riv.

[Reply]

Rhycar

I disagree with staff on this one. You’ve got a standard case of BSB play here. Your bet on the turn didn’t necessarily mean anything (as far as your opponents know), and the button could just be taking a stab in position to win the pot (in fact, I think that’s the most likely scenario. It’s doubtful he has a big hand.).

Knowing that, what’s the best way to build a pot? If he’s just taking a shot at winning, he’ll auto-fold to just about any raise, especially a big one. I think you need to take your time, let the clock run, then call. Your bet on the river depends on what you’ve seen the button do in previous hands. If you’ve seen him raise small bets, put out a small one. If you’ve seen him call overbets to pick off a bluff, put out a pot-sized bet. If you have no read at all, bet between half and 3/4 the pot.

I know we’d like to get a lot of chips with the nuts, but that doesn’t always happen. You have to maximize your potential winnings with the nuts, and in this case, raising clearly does not do that. Call and bet the river (even if it’s a scare card).

[Reply]

Utherrex

i think raise small is the correct play…why?
If he has a second best or a draw, he will probably pay a reasonable 3 bet to see the river… which is favourable to us. Raise big will scare any draw and most hands but trips…not good.
what about just call? if he has a FD or trips, he will see the river free, and if he hits it will be costly to us, while if he misses (FD) we wont get any value.
raise to about 700

[Reply]

_CityBorn_

Agree with staff and Utherrex. Villain is on a draw, make him pay as much as you can without folding him out. Why give him a free card and then let him decide if he wants to invest after he sees if he got there?

The other possibility is he is making a play with air or a weak hand, in which case you would have to call and check the river hoping he stabs at it again…this feels like youre losing value as the call of his raise will signal to him you really have something, and he could easily check behind on the river seeing that.

We have the nuts, now is not the time to play it passively and let him get away or draw out. Raising here increases the chance of getting all the money in if hes got something (including a draw), and most likely gets at least some more in there now to make him pay to draw, even if he then misses and folds the river. +EV overall.

[Reply]