Improved draw first to act on the turn, high stakes no limit cash

I think this is a great spot for a check-raise. You have enough chips to exert a good amount of pressure on any reasonable bet either of your opponents might make, and the check-raise allows you to negate some of the disadvantage of your position.

You also should be able to get most hands your opponents are likely to have in this spot to fold, and if all the money goes in, you’ll still have a decent amount of equity against two pair or a set.

What actually happened: You checked, the BB checked and the button bet 9,600. You called and the BB folded. You made a flush on the river and checked again. The button shoved and you called, and the button showed 44.

I would probably lead.

Leading, with my image as weak-tight, should get a fair amount of respect. It represents an Ace, or two pair or a set as WT players dont often lead with their draws (as this one didnt)

If I lead for 10K or so, the other two should fold a decent amount of the time, and when you get raised you have good odds with a monster draw to call with.

I would lead for $7k. Image of weak tight would get respect in this sitch. Betting represents an A and should I get called, still have 15 outs on the riv.

Check-call. Im happy enough to keep everyone in as long as possible while I draw to my outs. If I hit, its already a nice pot, and maybe I get more. If not, its check fold the river and hope I draw better next time.

yeah, wow, check-raise eh? Seems a bit spewy. I like the weak check-call here for exactly the reason we see. An experienced pro sees you check call twice and tries to steal on the river…money.

Lead 2/3 pot to represent the A. Call a raise if you’re getting pot odds.

I agree with the lead-out crowd. There are a lot of hands that they can have that they’d be grateful for the chance to check behind you. And after they dont hit their hand, how much money will they toss in? Let them think about getting that money in now, or get out.

I think all options are viable. I’d lead with a bit less than half pot and call any raise. If I miss on my draw, I may be able to front the A on the river and take down the pot with nothing, especially if my bet here looks like a value bet. If I hit my draw and show some weakness, I might get some good action after the river.

As played, I am shocked that a pro showed so much weakness preflop than played so aggressively that he bet off his whole stack, especially at the river. We got lucky that he went for a massive buy when there are so many hands that had him crushed.

I voted CR.

One option I really don’t like is check-call, for a simple reason that we’re only hitting our draw 1 time out of 3 and remaining 2 times we have complete garbage at river.

Leading out is fine as well I suppose, but again - imagine getting called and bricking the river.

The beauty of CR here is that it effectively says: ‘I either have a very strong made hand or a monster draw, now what are you going to do about it?’. This will only get called by strongest of hands and even against those we have decent equity. CR puts our opponent precisely into a position that I myself absolutely hate to be in - meaning that if they are ahead, it is not that much and if they are behind, they are crushed.

Did anyone else notice that the button lost 30 grand with a pair of fours? What a douche!

I definately don’t like the check-call.

But, to me check-raise and lead are both viable options. With our image here check-raise seems to have alot of FE on our opponent. On the other hand leading out will take down the pot alot of the time aswell.

I would almost always check-raise here, with just the information given.

Check-raise gives you the most ways to win the pot. We need to think about what the button has in this spot. If he has any piece of this flop the ace will represent a scare card and our raise (assuming he bets) will likely get our opponent to lay down hands containing a 9 or j. If by chance he was continuation betting with an ace in his hand, our raise will set off some bells in his head and force him to re evaluate the situation, possibly giving us an oppertunity to take the pot down with a bet on the river, when we do miss. he may fold hands with a weak ace and all the hands that he would have hit something on the flop with. Also when we do hit (assuming he calls the raise) we have created a nice pot with our raise on the turn and can get some value out of a bet on the river. These are just my preliminary thoughts about the situation and i would need to know more about my opponents tendencies, in order to know how effective the above would be agianst him. since my image is that of a weak tighty my raise would get alot of respect in this spot.

leading out $10,000 is half your remaining stack effectively committing you to any further action especially with 15 outs. Check calling a pot size bet will allow you the right pot odds to call and to get away from the hand if you don’t hit your draw on the river saving your self $10,000. These $10,000 here $10,000 there add up you know.
The BB may also call the pot bet boosting the pot even more if you hit your draw.
If either player shoves the turn then you can get away cheaply. The player in the actual hand played it right. Lets face it at those stakes his play is going to be not too shabby.

on the other hand if both players shove you will have odds to call for a massive pot with your 15 outs

If both players shove then this means that not all of your 15 outs are good though

I prefer CR, or perhaps CC depending on betsizes.

I dont like leading, as it is ugly when someone calls and river bricks, and our pot odds are not too appealing if we have to call a shove.

CR is more subtle, as it will have FE on top of odds.

I usually hate to check-call with a draw. The reason I think it is not a bad idea here, is that we dont have _A_ draw, we have two. And from the three draws out there, our draws dont include the most obvious flushdraw, so we are more likely to get some implied odds.

After som villain bets, I will consider whether the bet is big enough for the call to look goofy so a shove is better, or so big that I have no FE and villain commits himself to call a rivershove, which would be in favor of a call.

@ Paul

10K is 1/3 not 1/2 of your stack. Maybe its a bit too much but leading gives you the initiative in the hand, disguises your draw (which check-calling doesnt) and gives you a great chance to win the pot without having to make your draw or bluff a blank river.

check -call was the right play because it worked as a trap and that was what you where looking for

check to call is the only play here

Hmm, well I’ve never played anything close to high stakes, but my thinking is the following:
I like check-call and check-raise here; I don’t like leading.

Leading

Leading and raising a lot:
advantages:
1) You have a better chance of getting rid of a BB club draw and free up the Qc and/or 7c as outs than with a check call (no chance) or maybe a check raise. The sort of diamond draw to have gotten to this stage in the hand isn’t going anywhere.

i) C or BB now have the correct pot size relative to your stack size to shove with 2 pair (presumably they aren’t blind at this limit and can read the board for 2 flush possibilities and the Q10,10-8, 4-2, 5-4 straight draws so why would they wait any longer?)
ii) expect someone to call with an ace as you limped preflop
iii) You lose a made or half-mage BB hand before the river unless he also has a drawing hand (Q 10, clubs, better diamonds), in which case some of your outs are most likely dead.

Likely now only have 1 opponent so now your maximum payout and chances of a great payout have decreased while your investment into the pot has increased.

If C doesn’t RR allin with 2 pair, a similar draw to yours except with clubs, or a bluff (which would have probably been the case here), you get to try to bluff on the river.
2.If you lead and raise a little, this can instigate C to either reraise or a call, fold the river (J trying to hit 2 pair). this may lead to winning the pot, but little else. 50% chance at a pot maybe 14,000, when you have a 25%-30% chance at a pot of 70,000.

check calling:
11k pot is too little for C to shove on. A raise of 12k gives you the correct drawing odds without factoring the excellent implied odds and he likely won’t want to push the action that hard with an A on board…more like a 8-9k push to get rid of those 5 outers. You get to draw to your straight and flush draws, and if your flush hits, you’ll most likely get paid on river as you called the raise on the flop when there weren’t 2 diamonds, so it will make it much harder to put you on that hand. If a 7 comes, you can get paid with the straight. If a Q comes, payoff will be a min raise.

CR:

1. Advantages: you avoid the leading with a lot problem, “Why would he bet into me if he really has an ace when he knows I’m aggressive and have bet preflop and the flop?–why not get paid with his ace” by presenting a more believable story, that is less likely to get RRed if he only has a jack or 9 or pocket 88s or 10s.

2. You’d push out some bluffers here, rather than get pushed out by them on the river as with the check-call and leading.

3. Both fold. With his addition raise in, you could be picking up a nice sized 22k pot

Disadvantages:
1. You would get Reraised by 2 pair, any set, possibly the club equivalent of your hand, and some bluffers. This means you paid more to get the same thing or less (see 2.), and you will have turned a winning check-call proposition into a break even proposition (with 30k cash on the line, I hope you have a big bankroll that can take that sort of variance on longterm breaking even propositions, then again, if you can’t you shouldn’t play at this limit).
2. You will almost certainly lose 1 of them before the river, which is too bad for profit maximazing: if you would have check-called and caught a river diamond, and BB thought he had C beat, the pot might get a lot larger on the river.
3. If you hit the river, you can’t raise as much without expect to get paid less if you hit the check-call.

definetly lead, as a weak tight player they should give u enough respect to fold,but. even if u do get called down, there is a good chance ur still the favorite.