Cash, NL / Full

Overpair on paired river out of position, no limit cash

DailyHandQuiz

Game type: 10/20 Full Ring NL, PokerStars
Your image: TAG
Opponent’s image: A little loose
Your hand: J♣J♥

The setup: You’ve been fairly aggressive preflop in this no limit cash game; the majority of the table has been pretty tight. This hand you get JJ and the table folds to you in the SB. You make it 3x and the BB calls. You flop over:

4♦9♥8♠

You bet $80 into $120 and the BB calls. The turn brings the 5♠. You bet $160 into $280. The BB calls again. The river pairs the board with the 9♦.

What’s your play?

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12 COMMENTS  (Jump to comment form)

DHQ Staff
5.19.08 / 8pm

When they don’t have a better hand: Very few of the hands you would get value out of are going to bet in position here, and it seems more likely that they have some sort of pair rather than a pure missed draw at this point. So, to make money when you’re ahead, you’re going to have to bet.

When they do have a better hand: It’s probably going to cost you a pretty comparable amount to check-call as it will for you to bet and fold to a raise. Given the passive way they’ve played this hand so far and their looseish image, it doesn’t seem like you’ll get raised by a weaker hand very often (although it’s costly when you do).

It’s probably pretty close between check-call and bet, but I like a bet of a little over half-pot.

What actually happened: You checked and the BB checked, showing 64c.

kaimano
5.20.08 / 12am

We can’t fold a pair of jacks in this spot. By checking we invite a big bet we are very unpleased to call…but if we call and are raised we have to lay down perhaps the best hand…initially I thought that check-call was best but perhaps a small bet (1/3 of the pot) is more sensible…he can’t raise without a nine in his hand…

jhs
5.20.08 / 1am

what hand does he put us on its either a pair or two high cards i wud put out a small bet or check call almost any bet i wud think a nine wud have reraised on flop or turn to find out where they were so i think we are ahead of his range unless he is slow playing us with a set but on the turn he probs wud have sprung in to action when the 5 s came as it cud of give us an extra draw. so infact im defo bettin over half pot make it look like we are tryin to bully him of his hand

5types
5.20.08 / 2am

I voted check-call, as I agree with jhs that a nine would have raised.

Though thinking about it again leading would be the better play.

drhoho
5.20.08 / 8am

Check call or half pot, I like both.

Perhaps the lead is better, though I voted contrary.

_CityBorn_
5.20.08 / 8am

Bet strong. Its obvious he doesnt believe us, and hes playing either a draw or weak hand for pot control. The more we bet, the more he thinks we’re full of it. If hes playing a weak made hand, he’ll call our bet or check behind. If we check and he’s on a draw, he’ll fold or check behind anyway. +EV is to bet. Only way we lose this is if he got lucky and caught trips on the river. If he raises us, its going to be hard to let it go, so we might lose more if that happens. Thats the only downside to betting here, but the situation smells clear to me….extract what you can, we have the best hand.

OnlinePokerIncome.com
5.20.08 / 9am

If you are beat it’s going to cost you more to bet and then call a raise than to check-call.

If you are not beat then he either has a busted straight draw or flopped middle or bottom pair.

If it’s a busted straight draw the only way to make any money is to check and pick off a bluff. (This also costs you less if you are beaten as they will figure you for jamming AK and bet small enough to try and get you to call.)

If it’s middle/bottom pair the only way to make any money is to bet, probably about half the pot.

So if you are ahead it’s a coinflip whether you should bet or not, and if you are behind it’s clear that you should check-call to lose less money. That’s a high percentage telling you to check-call. The only other alternative is to bet-fold, which isn’t bad really - but it leaves you wondering if you got played.

So the choice is to check-call or bet-fold. I’d make that decision by my observations on the opponent and the feel of the game. Lacking that information I’d probably lean toward check-calling.

catcher
5.20.08 / 1pm

I bet-fold here. It would take very big balls to come over the top without a 9 here, and a 9 would have raised earlier anyway. However, if they do come over the top then I will let it go, 44 or 88 are certainly in BB-s range here. So, lead out for about 2/3 of a pot and fold to a raise.

Hach
5.20.08 / 4pm

It’s close, but I’m leaning towards bet-fold here. You’ve represented strength by betting on every street and as correctly pointed out by the staff the amount outlayed to B/F would be around the same as C/C. The villain is a tad loose, and a check might invite him to have a stab. He may even shove. By betting, you know where you stand at least. Put in as much as you are prepared to lose (i agree that 1/2 pot is about right, as it looks like a value bet). If the villain had grand plans to try and outplay you on the river, this play will hopefully talk him out of it.

teddy
5.20.08 / 5pm

if its an aggressive player, i like the check call here - there are a lot of donks out there that wouldnt believe we had a 9 or an overpair so theyre gonna come over the top on the river if we bet. however, if you believe hes a call station a 2/3 bet is a strong play

Timborocks
5.20.08 / 6pm

Considering you didn’t get raised on the turn when another under card to the 9 came, I would have put him on the exact kind of hand that he ended up having, small pair and a str8 draw. If he had a 9, I think the majority of decent players would have raised your bet on the turn when the 5 came(in hopes you have AK, or somehthing along those lines and are just making a continuation bet) and since he just flat called I definetly would not hesitate to bet the river almost certain my JJ is good!

Chad Gerson
5.20.08 / 9pm

I agree with what has been said, but people are overlooking that the smooth calling could be a turned straight, a small set or even something like AA/KK. If the first you could chalk it up to a BB special; the second is just bad luck for you; if the third you have to remember that you did his raising for him so he gave you no info pre-flop.

Check-calling, if you are beaten, at least gets you information. Betting and then likely folding if the villain shoves means you lose more than just money.

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