Fold.. this is a pretty weak hand.. you made a position raise and got a little bit of the flop yes.. but what if you’re looking at a higher flush draw here? You’re a pretty big dog against something even as small as a7 of spades.. you’ve already doubled your buy-in — take it easy, find a better spot

I’ll say it one more time for deaf ears.. fold

Sunshine, +1.

That’s the problem with shorthanded tables, as opposed to full rings. “Everybody gets more aggressive”…….Everybody gets more aggressive with WHAT? And yes, one can answer that question, but it won’t be a short answer, will it?

You got caught, or it sure looks that way. From here, after the flop, most likely everything stays the same:

a. nobody improves, equally, and there you are with your Jack in your hand (snicker).
b. both of you improve to a pair. You’ve got jacks. wowzer.
c. both of you hit a flush. you’ll be lucky if the jack wins.

But most likely, at this point, you’re already beat, with a 40% chance of improving to a flush. I’m not convinced that any other combination will win. Do you want to run this hand one hundred times, and count up the profit and loss?

The guy put you on big cards, because of the raise. Everybody at that level of play is smart enough to fold junk, most of the time, rather than steal attempt. Villain knows you don’t have the straight, and he’s saying ‘Ive got high cards beat’. At a minimum, he’s saying, if you caught a piece of that, I’m taking your stack.

I’m not calling that bet. Too many times, the result will be all too predictable, from solid, boring, unexciting, poker. That raise from the button wasn’t solid poker: it was a steal, and it got caught. Throw it away. Now, you’re going to improve, if at all, to second best hand, but for a flush, 40%, and I’m not calling that raise.

fold- these are the types of hands that kill you. He’s either way ahead of you now or on a semibluff that might be better than yours.

IMO it is a justified pushing situation, since I only see a good call by someone with a set (happened to be the case), a made straight or As7s; which will not happen very often. In any other case a call from my opponent seems too risky (it is too hard to improve two pair and too expensive to call on a flush or straight draw alone).

Easy fold.

You have bottom pair and an average flush draw, you tried to steal and cot caught with your hand in the cookie jar. There are just far too many hands out there that villan would check raise you with that you will need to catch runner, runner to beat. Rather fold this pot and save your cash for a better situation (one where you might even be ahead!).

Raise and call all-in.
Vs a pair or an overpair, you are favorite.
Vs a set, you are 35%.
Too lazy to calculate equity vs higher flush draw, but your pair gives you some insurance.

Having said that, the raise can only be done if you consider that you have some kind of fold equity. And I don’t think it is a bad assumption to say that at these limits, people are going to check-raise your C-bets with air or weak hands, thus giving you some fold equity

you’ve played long enough to double up and villian realizes you’ve made your basic standard raise and possibly called with suited connecter like 7,8 on a draw which I would call more often in a 6 handed game. So he/she hit and is now trying to maximize his money yet not get out drawn on a possible flush

It was between fold and raise 3x+ for me here, and I ultimately settled on shoving. I couldnt vote shove, but it’s a better choice then the 3x raise. If hes going to call 3x, he’s shoving, and youre going to call, might as well shove first and put as much pressure on him as possible to drop a draw or single pair. Id be glad to take the pot right here.

The way I read the situation, he puts our aggressive hero on a button steal, and maybe a small piece of the flop if anything. He figures his checkraise should take it down. By shoving, I let him know I have a hand, and he will have to lay down everything but a set, maybe 2 pair, and a made straight (unless he decides to get frisky with an overpair). Against a set or made straight (straight being fairly unlikely), im drawing to 8 or 9 outs, thats worst case scenario, im still ~33% to win. Against any other hand, im 50/50 and Im figuring most of the time he drops it and I take 15k without the show.

I figure its a +EV long term play…..the 50/50’s cancel each other out, and he’s got to drop it most of the time winning us 15k, more then making up for the ~50k I lose 2/3 of the time he calls. Remember, I still win ~50k 1/3 of those times. Balance that against losing 3800 guaranteed if we fold right now and Im putting my chips in the middle here.

Slightly less than 2.5 to 1 pot odds on a flush draw +5 outs (If you haven’t put your opponent on a set here, which I didn’t) you know you’re beat but you’re offered the right odds to draw against what is probably a made hand. Worst case scenario is he’s holding 2 overcards, still. I think this is a clear fold. Just because you’re on the button doesn’t mean you’re entitled to the pot. Next time think twice before you take your crap to war, or, if you absolutely must raise compulsively, think of what the gap concept dictates your opponent might call with out of position. Pushing back with bottom pair against a check-raise seems ludicrous to me.

Well, I calculated the odds a bit wrong, after rereading… still, maybe it’s just my conservative side, but am already looking for a way out of this pot.. heh

Usually I am the tight donk folding away tons of equity, but today I am the crazy donk putting all of my $$$ in behind. I voted to raise 3X. On second thought though, I am changing my answer to fold. (I know, I would have already shoved my chips in and lost my stack, but I think a fold is a better play).

We have to look at ranges and heads up at this level, both of the ranges involved are huge. Our raising range from the button is huge, and that gives our opponent to call from the SB with a huge range. Having said that, the SB call has a much tigher range than the button raise–mid pp, two broadway, suited connectors…

In a way, we flop a monster hand. We flop a pair and a flush draw. We can never be that far behind. If our opponent is on a draw, our pair is the best hand. And, if our opponent has an overpair/tptk/set/two pair, we still have our flush outs. It is a very powerful hand. Thus, my first instinct to shove it all in there. We should have some fold equity, but we also will have some outs.

The problem is in this particular case, with a hand like J4, our hand is very weak considering that we have a pair and a flush draw. Let’s look at each one independently. We flopped bottom pair with a 4 kicker? We certainly can’t like putting in our stack with that alone. Now to the flush draw. Do we really want to put in our entire stack with just the flush draw? No way. In fact, our flush draw is crushed by a hand like As7s or KsQs.

Sure, holding the pair and the flush draw does add to our equity, but I’m pretty sure the only thing we’re beating on the check/raise is air (which is a possibility on this flop).

Against any kind of hand though, I really don’t think we’ve got that much fold equity and we’re most likely trailing in the hand. Let’s not put our whole stack at risk in a -EV situation. If we run this through 100 times, I think a fold is the better play…

Everyone who commented that we got caught stealing and inferred that perhaps we shouldn’t have played the hand in the first place doesn’t play much at short-handed or 6-max tables. And I recommend that they stick to full ring games with that philosophy.

This was a must-raise spot preflop in 6-max. Standard procedure (unless the blinds are really gunning for you and you feel like taking a break). If you don’t raise with hands like this on the button when everyone folds you can’t win at 6-max. The blinds will eat your bankroll.

Oh yeah, the play. Either fold or get all your chips in there based on your read. Since this guy is defined as “tricky” I voted raise 3x+.

To OLPI: I’m usually in agreement with most of your decisions…..I’m OK with the preflop bet…but am surprised you didn’t fold after XRaise….I’d fold for sure…tricky or not…

you obviously all looked at the outcome before posting. this is a high stakes game, a checkraise in this spot can mean a wildly wide range of hands from the small blind. I’m shoving here just about every single time.

I also voted for 3x+. There are too many hands to check-raise with. If the SB check-raised with a big overpair, we are only a slight underdog.

J4 suited is way to weak to raise with on the button unless the players in the blinds are weak-tight. I prefer that the SB player should have re-raised the pre-flop raiser. A pair of fives is a very strong hand in a 3-player showdown.

I voted fold. Opponent is looking like he’s on a cheeky re-steal, maybe, but he probably isn’t unless he does it too often.

A push looks like a you’re on a draw (and you’re not really) so he’ll probably call.

Can’t call to take it away on the turn cos he’ll probably shove first.

Depends on the opponent and situation, but it’s real cash and a check-raise does occasionally mean a made hand that doesn’t want to see any more cards (understandable on that flop).

For what it’s worth, I thought it smelled like trips or two-pair. Typical nice catch for that pre-flop call.

It’s strange the way expert players sometimes think three levels too deep and get into trouble. I’m a (winning) low-stakes player who would most certainly be eaten alive in a game like this.

But I’d have survived that hand!

I voted fold, because calling your preflop raise your opponents hand looks like a small or medium pocket pair or maybe suited facecards. When he reraises your flop bet it smells like rotten tuna he has hit trips. And I don’t play one or two hours doubling my stack just to spoil it in one questionable hand with just an average flush draw.

I voted fold and Sunshine and Philes explained it for me.

Just because we put some chips in there already doesnt mean we have to be willing to risk it all on bottom pair medium flush draw, even in a 6 max.

Thats crazy talk.

how did the hand wind up? anyone know?