Daily Hand Quiz

Beautiful. Simply beautiful.

I almost certainly have the best hand here, and I’m going to play it like I do. I like a 3x raise.

The thing to remember here is we’re raising for VALUE. I’d be disappointed with two folds as I’m quite positive I have an edge on both opponents. It may be a small edge depending on their holdings, but this is a cash game, and an edge is an edge. Assuming this limit is right for my bankroll, I’ll take 51/49 all day.
But we’re probably more like 60/40 or even better. I don’t want to shove here and potentially chase out our customers. I’ll raise 3x here and pray for a shove.

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Don’t see how you can do anything but shove here. We’re going to see sets/2pair a lot out of CO, but bigger flush draws and pair/draw combos also make up a good portion of his range here(in which we have pretty good equity against).

Oh and I raise this pre-flop almost always given stack sizes.

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Also this is a massive draw vs. a bet and a raise, not a raise and a re-raise.

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@Jeremy fischer

Say we are 60-40.
If I move all in, wont them folding and leaving me a 189$ pot have almost the same value as if I was caller by player C? And in case player C has a better flushdraw, what to do if they hit? Or you raise and the board pairs on turn?

I would rather push rigth now and end it.

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Situation is nice but without the betting lead this situation becomes more difficult.
Fucking hell I hate limped pot.

Contrary to what people say, we are behind.
BUT we have a lot of equity even against 2 opponents so we do not fold…. well that was simple lol.

Ok what ranges do we put both villains on.
Ok the information we are given once again sucks tremendously!!! CAn we not get proper info on villain.

All we are told is villain in small blind is loose. Great. What does that means?? Is he loose preflop? Is he a loose opener? Is he a loose caller? Does he play loose posflop and overplay hands? WTF does loose mean here.
More important is he loose-passive or loose-aggressive. If he is loose passive no way is he betting into this flop without a better 8, overpair(99-QQ) or 2 pair or better. So really we have hardly any info on villain……

Because this is so vague and generic I am going to think loose means all of them. and because loose players are typically classed as bad players, I think we can fairly assume that villain is a loose passive player.
Therefor I do see villain betting here without a good piece of the board. When player C raises this dein fitely gets alarm bells ringing. He has a strong hand. I think a set or good 2 pair is the most likely holding here. Overpair raises preflop most of the time in position.

Now what are out options. We can raise. Ok pople say we can raise 3×4 the amount hoping for a push. Really this raise is foricing opponent to commit to the hand and I tihnk a shove does exactly the same thing.
We can call…… or we can fold.

Folding is out of the qusetion. Now should we raise or fold.

If we raise. I am sure the ‘loose’ player in the SB will call with 2 pair, and because of his style I doubt he is oging to fold much. Villain C has shown himself as strong. How likely is he to fold to a push given his range…… uinlikely unless he is a nit. (dont think thats the case)

I dont really know how much fold equity we need in these spots to make raising better than calling, but somehow the fold equity here looks small given the board texture and play.

This is why I vote for an unusual call.

I need to do some calculations here because we may have as little as 10% FE to make this profitable, and even in this scenario I tihnk they fold out 10% of the time to make this profitable.
Will have to do the EV calcs and see, but for now call. (though I have no idea wtf to do on turn, which makes me think of raising even the more)

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You very likely don’t have the best hand now. Overpairs and sets are quite likely. You do however have the best hand if you get to see the next 2 cards. How do you accomplish this? By going all-in
. Because If you call and a blank comes on the turn they might go all-in denying you odds to call; if a diamond hits you might be facing a better flush while that flush draw might have folded to your all-in.
Although it’s an obvious semi-bluff move which will get called by an overpair and certainly a set, this is still your best move.

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call and see turn
at first count it looks like 16 outs
9 dia 3 fours 3 nines and 1 eight
but what if 1 player has ace eight dia and the other has a set which from the betting pattern could be. this would leave you with only 6 outs and that could be for only a split pot as 1 of the players may already have the straight,If you spike the eight then a set would kill you.
If you reraise 3x what are you going to do if a player comes back over the top
best play is to call and then see what happens

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@Gary:
Ad8d is not likely since you have 8d And if the guy has a set you still have your flush and straight outs!!!

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lol……….

shows you how much doing equity calculations help.
This is a clear shove.

Our equity is about 43% against this range.

Villain 1′s range:
88,66-55,A8,97,98,85,86,87,74,65

Villain 2′s range:
88,66-55,97s,86s,65s
(I dont think villain 2 plays 86o or other offsuit hands because he is callased as tight)

With added fold equity too, pushing gives us the most value.

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I see this as a call/all-in situation.
Your hand is surely good for an all in with probably 14 outs (straight, flush, trips and backdoor 7s), so unless you are agains a better flush draw you are ok. As far as I see an all-in might not be called, but that is worth since I actually dont have a winning hand so far.
A 3x raise will keep other flush draws in the game while might make a pair of 9-J call-push on the river unless a scare card comes, which is bad since my odds will be cut down.
A call is not as strong because it shows strenght and might reveal a draw. Regardless, given the action on the flop, I believe there will also be some action on the turn. While it might be a terrible mistake to give your opponents a free card I would not see slowplaying this hand as a mistake, because of the positional advantage..

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Everyone above says “no way you can fold”, but I’m reading a higher flush draw out there.

Sure the str8-flush would be great but that’s a 2 outer.

So what am I hoping comes? I could hit my straight or flush and easily lose to a higher flush.

I voted fold originally, but admit now that this is pretty weak and perhaps the call/reevaluate is the best play.

I’d love to see the PokerStove numbers on this hand. Even better, as a relative beginner, I’d love someone to show me how to run the PokerStove numbers on this hand.

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Matt

Read mine above.

Done the poker stove numbers.
WE have 43% equity against the range I have given.
If you want I can include flush draws…… but I doubt that a flsuh draw is raising this flop…..
This would also increase our equity not decrease.
We have a pair already and are ahead…

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Ok against 1 person calling a puish with a range of:

88,66-55,97s,86s,65s

we have 50.7% equity meaning this already profitable.
Combined with the fact, they fold part of their range when we hit turn, they push us off our hand if we call turn and miss, and the fact that they may fold part of their range when we push getting fold equity. Pushing is DEFINITELY the correct play here.

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Ok against 1 person calling a puish with a range of:

88,66-55,97s,86s,65s

we have 50.7% equity meaning this already profitable.
Combined with the fact, they fold part of their range when we hit turn and just call, they push us off our hand if we call turn and miss, and the fact that they may fold part of their range when we push (ie. we get fold equity by picking up the dead pot)
Pushing becomes DEFINITELY the correct play here.

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Bob,

could you add the flush draws to pstove, take a screenshot, and send it to me? It would help me immensely to learn how to use this tool.

mtagliaf – at – wind stream – dot – net.

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Very good quiz question today. I voted to raise here, just 3x-4x. I’m raising to isolate and for value.

It’s a question of equity and hand ranges. And, while people have come close, I don’t think they are spot on.

First, let’s look at our “loose” SB villain. He spots two weak position limps and aggressively goes after the pot. Quite frankly, he could have any two cards here. And, his continuation bet is pretty standard into two weak preflop limp/calls. I don’t think we have to give him two pair or a set or a draw or anything for that matter. I’m pretty much going to disgregard his hand, but I’m hoping that he’s actually holding a preflop monster like AA/KK. If so, we are way ahead of his hand.

Our villain in the cutoff has a wider range. He obviously doesn’t have a huge pp, but he may have a mid pocket pair, some sort of weak suited ace, or some kind of suited connectors and suited one gappers. When he raises the flop, he is representing a lot of strength, especially since we are still in the hand. Even if he figures that the SB doesn’t have anything, it’s going to be tough for him to make a strong move on the pot with us still to act and the fact that the board could have connected with a hand that would have limped on the button. I’m saying he has a set, a pair and a draw, or two pair.

If the SB has AA and the cutoff is holding 86, we are the favorite. As a matter of fact, the only hand that we’re a coin flip against is a flopped set. And, even then, we’re no worse than a coin flip and there is already dead money in the middle. I doubt we fold out a set, but we also have fold equity over a hand like AA and possibly even two pair.

So, I like a nice raise here, maybe to $350. Obviously, this commits us to the hand, but it might get our SB villain to get frisky and shove or our cutoff villain to shove when we’ve got the most equity in the hand.

So, I guess I only see there being two options here: 1) you can fold. Obviously, there are easier spots to put your stack in when you have a much larger edge. Or 2) you can raise for value.

I absolutely do not think that calling is an option. While this does possibly bring the SB along given decent odds, I also don’t know what the hell we are going to do on any turn, other than the two outs that give us the straight flush. If the turn misses us, we can no longer call a big bet since our equity has significantly dropped. If one of our outs hits, are we seriously getting paid by anything? If the flush hits and we face serious heat, are we putting in our stack with an 8 high flush? If we hit the bottom end of our straight draw are we going to put in our entire stack against a possible higher straight? I don’t see a single way to play the turn. The turn will either kill our action or if we see a blank, it will push us out of the pot.

I like a raise here because we have so much equity and there is so much dead money in the pot. We have some fold equity as well and we’re committing ourselves to the hand while we have the proper equity and odds to do so.

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This seems like a very nice situation, top pair and an open ended straight-flush draw. This means we would probably have 19 outs (2 8s (to give us trips), 9 diamonds (for a flush), 3 4s and 3 9s (for a straight). This shows we are favorites to win the hand, even though we probably don’t have the best hand yet.

But I do not believe that’s the case in this hand – and I will be explaining why later.

First of all, lets try to put our opponents on hands they might have.

First lets start with the preflop raiser, and bettor on the flop, the SB.

The SB might have a huge range of hands he might be holding. We know he is a loose player, so preflop I can see him easily raising with two big diamonds, A-8, any other A bigger than A-8. He can also be raising with two face cards, or a pocket pair (any pair greater than 5).

His bet on the flop may be interpreted in 3 ways.

1) He completely missed the flop, and his bet is just a continuation bet. I really don’t think that’s the case. His bet is almost the size of the pot, too big for a continuation bet! Plus he is up against 2 opponents, on a dangerous drawy kind of flop, so the continuation bet, out of position is not likely to work. Therefore, I really doubt it is a continuation bet, where the SB completely missed.

2) He made a huge hand, and is betting to protect it. He could easily have a set. I explained he might have any pocket pair, so he could have completed a set of 5s or 6s, and believing he has the best hand, he is betting to protect it against a draws. He can also be doing that with any overpair.

3) He has a diamond draw, and is betting on a semi-bluff. He can easily be holding two big diamonds or A-x of diamonds, and is trying to take the pot here, or make his hand later to win an even bigger pot!

So, we can’t really put the SB on a hand, and we will need much more information on him later to make a decision about his hand.

Then, a big reraise comes from a quiet player, who has just limped in preflop, and now has chosen to make a big reraise!

Well, he is screaming, I’ve got a monster!!

He probably made a set of 6s. He is betting to protect it. His limp in preflop was to see a cheap flop and get away from his hand if he doesn’t make a set on the flop. He can also be holding Aces, and chose to trap on the flop, and now has to bet them strong to protect them. I really doubt he is on a draw, so his hand is huge and we can make a lot of money on this hand if we make our draw.

Now, its on us to choose our action.

I am very surprised with how many people chose to raise. We might easily be dead to a straight (or a straight flush). If the SB has diamonds in his hands, he probably will have us beat should a diamond (that doesn’t make the straight-flush) come on the later streets. Also, the making a set is not too good. If anyone of them has a set, that will make them a full house, and we can loose a lot of money.

I really don’t think reraising here is a good idea. The SB or player C may choose to move-in, and then we will be faced by a really tough decision!! Plus, we aren’t really sure how strong the SB is. He might fold to the reraise, or he might have a real hand.

In all cases, I think the reraise is a poor move here, it could cost us a lot, and unless we push all our money in, we might be in a lot of trouble on later streets. I don’t want to move in, so I am not raising here!

I think it’s down to how much do we want to gamble here?
I can see us throwing our hand into the muck or just making a call. I don’t want to increase the pot’s size, and then, when a blank hits on the turn, be faced with a massive raise I can’t call.

I really believe that calling here is the best option though. We know player C has at least a pair of Aces, but we are not sure what the SB has. If the small blind calls, I think we are done with this hand. If he chooses to fold, which is very possible, then we should continue in the hand, and be willing to move-in on the turn!!

If the SB calls, he can have a bigger two diamonds than us. Then, we will need to hit a straight flush card to make a lot of money (that is only 2 outs). If any other diamond falls, we can lose a lot of money if we aren’t careful.

I really am hoping the SB folds now. That is the only way we can continue playing this hand strongly.

If he is in the hand, and the turn is not a 4 or a 9, I am out – even if a diamond hits!

This is a very dangerous hand, and we must be very careful!!!

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Cherry, usually I totally agree with your analysis, but today, I think you missed the mark.

If you call, you’re giving the SB good odds to call with a flush draw if he has it. And then we’re looking at 6 outs, which may not even be good?

If you’re going to call $100 with 6 outs (and just having 1 card to catch it), you need to get paid almost $1000 to have this be a profitable play. If you are looking at 3 outs (to split the pot), you’re in much worse shape. Obviously, you’ve got two live outs regardless to make the straight flush. (obv is the 9 or 4 of diamonds hits, you’re not folding as you mention).

Plus, you are never drawing dead here. Against a set, you have almost 50% equity and against a higher draw, you are ahead. The only combination you don’t want to see is a set and a higher draw and it all gets in the middle.

Against those two hands, you’re not in too great of shape.

Are you going to call $100 and then fold to a re-raise by the SB? If so, you have to fold here.

I’d still think that a raise here may force out a higher draw and you’d get it all in against a set and have a coin flip situation. But, I don’t think you’re always facing a set here. If you’re against an overpair (SB could easily hold TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA here) and two pair (65 for example) we are the favorite. I think we can fold out an overpair with a raise and possibly even fold out two pair. Even if the dude flopped the nuts, we are still only a slight dog against him.

The one thing I don’t want to do though is to flat call and see any single card in the deck other than the 9 or 4 of diamonds. And, even then, we’re not getting paid by a set (unless the river pairs) or two pair or an overpair. We would only get paid by a higher flush. But, if any other card in the deck hits, we’re not going to like our hand that much. And, if we’re going to fold when any card in the deck hits but two, we might as well just fold now.

I still think a raise is better. I like my combo draws!

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This is a clear raise. I don’t know if there’s much difference with a standard raise (3x ish) or all-in, as you’re committed either way.

Your equity here is substantial. You really have to cook up a worst case scenario here for an all-in to be negative EV. You are a substantial favorite over a better flush draw, an overpair with a back door flush draw and two pair. You are barely behind a set or a weak made straight. You are only substantially behind a made nut straight.

From this viewpoint, the only decision to make is to slow play or commit right here. Well, you _might_ be ahead with your 8′s, but I don’t think so – you’re on a draw. And if a blank comes on the turn, you can get knocked off the hand… and the pot is already worth winning. Raise now.

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patrick you hit the nail on the head with you last sentence

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slight edge to the 3x raise; many options plausible. all-in is beyond the realm of the sensible.
Cherry’s syllable/idea ratio improving, but that numerator is still pretty large.
Key point: there are SO many lousy ways to lose this hand; those ways decrease if we can go head-up with one of these clowns. Let’s raise and bring out the inner coward in one of them, right now.

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I see it as an all in or fold situation. Don’t understand the logic of calling or even small raise–giving the trips (likely player C) the chance to fill up. Yes Player C could be representing, but to me his raise to 100 screams trips as an overpair would probably go much higher to see where he stands and he didn’t raise preflop suggesting little pair. (yes he may have a higher flush draw, in which case we’re also even money with two overcards).

I’m surprised by people rejecting the fold. You got $15 Invested. I am definitely not a 50/50 or even 60/40 player–i want to get my money, especially my buy-in–in a much better spot than a coin toss.

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Ok first thing…….

None of you are given villain a range!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
People say he might have AA or 66. ANd so what……..that the only 2 hands villain could have here??

We cant play poker without given villain a range.
We make worse decision cannot calculate correctly without a range.

Ok Ally. You say the SB limper is betting with any 2 cards here because he is ‘loose’.

Ok this is where the defintion of ‘loose’ becomes important………
This site sucks at giving info on the player. A loose player preflop, may be a tight player postflop.

For instance I am a crazy LAG player preflop. You can actually call me a maniac. Doesnt mean I bet the pot into 3 players OOP with this board……
Noone does this unless they come from utterly retarded donkville land and even then this is unusual to see some bet here with any 2 cards. Ok we may not give villain a very good hand but he has hit the board!!! I can positively say that. He has a piece and is betting with it.

Ok Cherry.
You are not looking at your equity here. We have a massive amount of equity even against a very very good range. The range I gave about meant that villain had 2 pair+, and sitll our equity was high enough still to shove.

When our equity is good. We want to raise for value. By calling we are not doing that. We are letting a card come off, and giving us the opportunity to fold if a card on the turn doesnt come for us. Lets say the queen clubs comes on turn and he pushes. We cant call. We lose our equity in the pot, and give it to villain. Exactly what we dont want to do.

We shove for value

I dont like calling because we are not creating Fold equity

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lol at those who want to fold an open ended straight flush draw.

lol at thinking you must be up against a bigger flush and a set and are “drawing to 2 outs”.

lol at narrowing opponents ranges to a set and a higher flush draw.

lol at this being anything other than a raise.

lol at those turning this into a poker stove calculation or wondering “what our EV is here”.

This is the clearest example of a raising spot you could ever find. Find a way of getting all your money, and that of your opponents, in to this pot you bunch of nit donks.

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easy call

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If you’re gonna fold this hand, you probably shouldn’t be playing poker. If you call the 100 what are you going to do if you get reraised by the SB? You certainly don’t want to put yourself in a tricky situation by being reraised or by making another hard decision on the turn, this is a huge draw, and I’m shoving for value. These are the kind of hands where you have an opportunity to when all of your opponents money, and to play poker you can’t always get your money in when you’re leading 4 to 1, its just not how life works. I like the shove here.

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