Cash, NL / Short

Flush draw and pair vs. checkraise

Thanks to HighStakesReport for the hand history.

Game type: 200/400 NL
Your image: A regular player at these stakes
Opponent’s image: Quiet so far this session
Your hand: 4♠5♠

This hand is taken from actual game play at the 200/400 NL holdem table at Full Tilt. This hand took place between ‘Ozzy 87′ and ‘whitelime’. You’ll be standing in for ‘Ozzy 87′

The setup: It’s been a pretty slow session so far. You’re enjoying a sandwich while knocking out a few hands at table Canfield. You haven’t been involved in any really big pots until this hand comes up. Here you raise it up to $1400 with some suited connectors and you get called by whitelime in the SB. The flop is pretty nice:

3♠4♦Q♠

Your opponent checks, you bet $2600 while some mustard squirts out of your turkey on rye. While cleaning up your shirt you see that you’ve been checkraised to $7000 and you have about 10 seconds left on your timer. What’s your play?


10 COMMENTS  (Jump to comment form)

Jeremy Fisher
8.15.07 / 12am

Call. We’re probably behind, but not way behind. I think one scenario is we’re up against KQ, QJ kind of hand (AQ woud probably have repopped PF). Two pair isn’t happening on this board, unless he made a loose call with a suited 34.
Of course there’s also a good chance he’s on a draw. Gotta hope he doesn’t have higher spades, maybe he’s on 56 or a similar drawing hand.
Really he’s only gonna be sitting there with a strong Q, a solid draw or a set.

Q is least likely. I think he’s likely to lead rather than CR a flop like this. So either we’re ahead of a naked draw, or significantly behind to a set.

Why not call here? We’ve got a solid draw and we’re priced in to see the next card. We aren’t quite sure where we stand, and I’m thinking there are two ways to get a pretty good idea of that, one rather cheaper than the other. The first is to raise it here, realized that you’ve tied yourself down to this pot regardless of what he has, and the other is to call and reevaluated in position on the turn.

If the turn blanks and I face a big bet, I know I’m probably behind and don’t have the odds to draw out, so I can bail. As happened, I’d happily shove with the flush on the turn, and probably get called and stacked anyway by his boat on the river, but at least I’d feel a little better doing it than going in behind on the flop.

James Staines
8.15.07 / 1am

I wud just call or maybe even look for a better spot (depending how much i wanna gamble) only a strong hand wud check raise on that board with a flush and a straight draw on it but i wud consider folding if the board paired can only see him having a set unles it is a very suspect play with a Queen or a monster draw. Check Raise just seems so strong

John B.
8.15.07 / 5am

Fold. The mustard was an omen!

matt tag
8.15.07 / 5am

so whiteline had 44?, 34?

I voted fold - I didn’t think he would checkraise unless he already had a strong hand or was on the flush draw himself. (would he risk giving a free card to a spade draw if I checked behind?) If he’s on a spade draw like me, it’s a higher spade draw.

Patrick Cherry
8.15.07 / 7am

One very important thing has been left out of the explanation in this hand - are you known to making continuation bets even when you miss completely?

If that’s the case, I believe his hand is strong. Not too strong maybe, but he is in the lead. Probably A-Q or K-Q. He may also have a set ofcourse.

If you are not known to make cont. bets, then he is probably on a draw, and wanted to see a free card.

The only problem here is whether to move in or just call. We are not folding, but we don’t want to gamble a lot here. If he has a Q, moving in will be fine, as we have too many outs if he calls- which I doubt! If he has a set he’ll call, and even though we still have many outs, I don’t want to be the one chasing.

If we just call, and the turn does not help us, we can’t continue if we are faced by a big raise.

Therefore, I believe the all-in is a better move. Let him face a tough decision! Most of the times, he will just throw away his hand, and I will be happy with what I won, if he calls, he probably will have a set, in which case we just need to hit our flush, and win an even bigger pot.

This is a perfect hand for a semi-bluff!

Eric
8.15.07 / 7am

The choices suck. Raise to 20k? I like raising to about 12k here.

abetter spot
8.15.07 / 7am

I like the call too, the odds to call are great, and I don’t see a hand with one queen doing this checkraise (maybe AQ as jeremy said, but AQ would likely have been a bit more aggro preflop) . A set would do this, two pair would (but what two pair??) and a flush draw. I would like to play it slower, and with us in positiion we can get some information after the turn card hits.

Ally
8.15.07 / 8am

I voted to raise. The beauty of a hand like this is that we are never really that far behind. If we’re up against two pair or a set, we’ve got our flush outs (assuming the board doesn’t pair) and if our villain has a higher flush draw, well, then we are already ahead–although in this case very slightly as our villain would most likely have two overs plus his flush draw.

I originally thought to call, but then figured that what possible card is going to hit the turn that I’m going to like? If a spade hits, I guess I have to go with it, but I could then be drawing dead against a higher flush. It’s very likely that the next card is not a 5 or a 4 and even if it is, a 4 makes a full house and a 5 completes a straight draw. In fact, no card can possibly hit that isn’t an over to our pair or doesn’t complete a draw.

So, I guess I figure we have the following options:

1) I think we can call here and draw for the flush or a 4 or 5 and then go with it if it hits, even if we’re against a set or a higher flush.

2) We can fold since we really don’t know where we stand

3) We can raise with a hand that is never that far behind. We’ve got some fold equity against a hand like KQ/QJ, and we can put to the test someone checkraising with air or as a semibluff on a draw. If we can get some hands to fold here, I think this is a profitable play.

I think a call is ok, but we’re basically drawing to a 5 high flush.

I prefer a raise here.

Finally, a hand where I’m not the total wuss and am the aggressor.

ShakeBake
8.15.07 / 5pm

what were you thinking? eating at the poker table is a sin!

Bob
8.16.07 / 4am

This is a very simple all in given the stack sizes

Now only a few of you are doing this.
What ranges are we assigning villain? Well because this is 200/400NL we have to assume are opponent is a good thinking player.

Hand ranges I am giving opponent
33,44, possiblle 34(not sure how liekly opponent is cold calling this preflop)
AT-A2s, JTs-J9s,T9s-T8s,98s
KQ,QJ-Q9 a possible 99-77(though there are usually leading flop or 3betting preflop)

Going to the river against these hands we have a lot of equity against. By going all in we ensure that we keep that equity plus we gain extra folding equity against those hands. Here the EV is the highest when we push.