Top two on the river multiway, no limit tournament

Game type: No limit tournament
Your image: A bit passive
Stage of tourney: Middle stages
Avg stack: About 4000
Misc notes: Player A has been taking a lot of stabs at scary turns
Your hand: A♥Q♦

The setup: Preflop, Player A limps UTG and the table folds to you. You raise to 400. The button calls, the blinds fold and Player A calls. The flop brings help:

A♠T♥5♥

… Player A checks and you bet 700, a little under half pot. To your surprise, the button flat calls, as does Player A. Hearts get there on the turn when the comes 2♥ and Player A leads out for 750. You call and the button calls behind you. The river is a bit sickening: Q♣. Now things get interesting.

Player A checks, you check, and the button bets 1000 into about 5000. Player A calls. You have top two and there’s almost 7000 in the middle. What’s your play?

9 COMMENTS (Jump to comment form)

drhoho

A horrible situation it is. I voted fold.
When it really really looks like someone hit a flush, they usually have. I dont remember when I last time called and found out something else.
And that half-stack bet by player G really stinks. What else could he possibly have?
I really wonder what player A could be holding since he calls.
Maybe I am too scared of getting outdrawn, but with two hearts on that flop i would never have bet less than half pot here. With 1800 in the pot, I would bet like 1200 and make them pay. 700 into 1800 requires almost no implied odds for a flushdraw to call. You were the one to raise preflop, you are not likely to get a raise by a weaker A. Take the money and run.

[Reply]

Scott

You got yourself into this mess by betting too little on the flop. You gave everyone odds to draw.
I’d just give it up as played and fold.

[Reply]

Joe

While the pot odds are huge at the end, against two active players you have to let this one go. You’re prob. beaten and you’ll lose even more chips than you already have.

There were two mistakes with this hand:

1. With top pair and a Q kicker on the flop, you should have bet more than half the pot. Even though that bet denies proper flush draw odds, it’s not enough with today’s loose players. You should have bet the pot or even jammed if you felt in your gut you were best.

2. I would have folded on the turn with a third heart and two active players. If it were just player A, it’s a tough call.

To answer the DHQ staff question, if player G went all in and player A folded, I would call if he had been showing down marginal hands. If he’s been tight/solid, I’m done.

[Reply]

Mary

I’m calling. I have made so many mistakes here, as last to act, I’m making the call for one third of my bank. A loss barely changes my ranking at this table, after A calls, I think there’s too much money to fold. Folding was when the third heart showed, when I made that call, I committed to this one.

In a Tournament, top pair great kicker, why didn’t I take the good money in the pot on the flop.

[Reply]

Mary

Just read the staff’s opinion, I don’t have the personal fortitude to fold. But the bonus question. If G went all in, and A folded, although its the same money is in the pot, I would be able to fold. I am willing to risk one third my money, but not more than half my bank.

[Reply]

Glenn

I think you ignore player A, look at the player G and tell him that you know he has his flush, but he doesn’t have the Ace, and it was definitely the wrong time to bluff.. and then raise him.

Yes, mechanically you are against the wall. There are no odds, one of them has the flush, but this question ignores a huge information factor that I have. I know where the Ace of Hearts is… its in my hand. I know neither of these guys have that card. They know it too, which is why they called and moved like they did.

I didn’t “play” my way to this point, but that doesn’t mean I can’t play my way out of it, using firm information to create dis-information. From the description I was betting like I was on the draw right along with them. So all evidence suggests that I was going for a flush as well. Like the Professor says, the story holds true.

It also says that I’ve been playing passively. So, coming in strong like that would not only be unexpected, but would negate some of the belief that I’m bluffing.

There is no middle move though. You either fold or raise with a laugh, and a smile to heaven for your good fotune.

[Reply]

Mikey

Very interesting idea that Glenn… I reckon that if you were on the bubble, or if Player G had more to lose, it could work. Unfortunately, as it is, I think Player G will have to call…

[Reply]

a raise would probably work against some of the best players in the world… when very high stakes are involved.. but in this situation I can’t see any of these players folding a made flush..

[Reply]

KXF

It is an interesting idea but I dont think player G is folding here, especially if he has a made flush. Theres 7000 in the middle and he only has 1200 behind, seems like he has to call, especially if he has something like KhQh or even KhJh, he might have made his straight instead of or even as well as his flush.

Its a hard one but I prob kick myself for not betting more on the flop, fold and see their cards hoping I was right!

[Reply]